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Old 09-04-2007, 07:59 AM   #151
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Ok wanted to post what I found out Sun. Is brushless for me and what is the difference between a Novak 13.5 and the LRP 13.5.

This was my FIRST time every having brushless in MY car. I have tried running others and never really liked the feel.

I ran a LRP TC spec and LRP 13.5 w/sintered rotor at a track where my car has been REALLY GOOD all summer. There was also some that had been running the Novak 13.5 for a year or so. One of my local tracks has a NOVAK only rule for brushless...

The track is an unpreped track other than blowing it off on race day.

MY single fastest lap with a brushed CO27 was a 16.6 and my FASTEST overall run was 18 in 5:10 with Brushed.

First battery pack on the track Sun. morning with about 8 guys watching to see "How much faster the LRP was Vs thier Novak" I ran a 16.9 fastest lap and averaged around a 17.1-17.2. Which was VERY CLOSE to the times with brushed...but all of the brushless guys said I was geared wrong. I was geared at a 5.26. It came off at about 110 degs after 5-6 mins. so I knew it was geared wrong after that. So I went back geared the thing at 4.88. This was the gearing that the Novak guys are running.

All I can say is WOW!!! First lap was a 16.5! They stayed right around that time all run! Motor temp was in the 150-160 range. So I left the gearing alone.

I then asked one of the guys running a novak 13.5 if I could run his motor and compare the two on track feel and on the clock. Back to back. Same car,same tires, same driver I figured this was going to be the only "true" test i was gonna get with the LRP Vs. NOVAK!

He had no problem and wanted to see for himself which may be better...

Geared at the same 4.88 I ran 16.4 first lap with the novak and ran very consistant 16.5-16.6 with the Novak. SAME times! LOL

Only difference I noticed was the Novak rolls alot longer more free feeling and didn't have the "drag brake" feel as I did with the LRP.

Ok race time came. I ran my fastest laps in race condition and tq'ed 5 full secs. faster than my previous fastest TQ. 18 5:05 with a bobble that cost me almost a full 3 secs. and 10 full secs. up on sec. place...LOL i have only been able to TQ by about a sec. or two in past week while running Brushed vs. their brushless. The brushless times for me didn't "fall off" at the 3 1/2- 4 min. mark.

SO my conclusion was this, YES brushless 13.5 in the right hands and right car is FASTER THAN BRUSHED! There is no difference in lap times Novak VS. LRP 13.5! Its all feel, which system you like better. I thought about it all day and thought if I could adapt to the free feeling Novak I think I could have gone faster with it, as it should have in theory carried more corner speed with the free roll it had, but it didn't "feel" like a brushed motor and that is what I needed.

I hope this info. helps!
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:24 AM   #152
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That's a great review, thanks for taking the time to share it. It definitely echos my experience between the Novak and LRP. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Novak with the new 13mm rotor. I believe it will make it feel more like the LRP with the smaller air gap and increased cogging.
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:25 AM   #153
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Were the Novaks running sintered rotors or bonded?

I've found my lap times with the LRP bonded were very close to the lap times of a Novak with a sintered rotor while running a lower roll out. My best lap with a Novak sintered was 9.5 while I averaged 9.8's. This is with a 36mm roll out. With the LRP my best lap was a 9.7 but ran 9.9's consistently. This was with a 32.5mm rollout. The LRP came off the track at 145 degrees and the Novak was a bit hotter (155 from memory). Despite the LRP being a bit slower, I think it had more punch out of the corners but lacked a bit of top speed. I might gear up a tooth or two and see what happens.
Does anyone know if the bonded rotors in the LRP are affected by heat as much as the NOvaks?
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:30 AM   #154
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The Novak that I ran was the 13.5ss which comes with the sintered rotor.

I also think that once a 13mm rotor is installed in the Novaks they too will feel more like what I noticed with the LRP. But no one at the track had one to be able to compare that.
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:33 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by speedfreakUK View Post
Ok guys, just got hold of the LRP Eraser 15.5 ( as it says that is more like a stock that the 13.5) and want to race it at my local club.

Track is indoor on primafelt type carpet and is fairly small ( down to around 10 sec laps depending on track layout )

Can someone please give me an idea for gearing to start with as I have absolutely no idea at the moment where to start ??

Thanks
Hmm... try a rollout of around 32-35mm and work from there. With a 13.5 eraser, I'm running a 30mm rollout on a similar sized track. I'm geared for punch out of corners, and speed peaks out around 3/4 way down the straight.
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:24 AM   #156
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Great write up imprsme. I've heard pretty much the same, very close to the N13.5 with more of a brushed feel on the LRP. I will find out soon as our track just changed to carpet for the winter.

Has anyone played with the timing settings to see what difference it makes? I upped mine to 4 degs. from the 2 it came with, but I've been changing too many other things on the car to notice any change.
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:25 AM   #157
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Thanks for the kind words guys.
This was a test that I wanted to do for a few reasons...I know brushless is coming. But I had never ran a system that I fully had the feeling of a brushed motor with.

Also at the time of purchase I didn't know about the "Novak 13.5 only rule" at one of my local tracks, I just bought the the system I wanted and it seemed to cause a big Stink when some saw the LRP 13.5 motor (even though I never ran it). LOL

So it was also a test to see how the two motors compared in the same car on the same track with the same conditions.

As for Timing. That was something I really want to try also. But I honestly never got around to it.

I can say this that after one FULL race day with a brushless system in MY car, I am alot more open to the technology. Not to say I have fully jumped on the bandwagon but I would/will use it in the future. I still don't see brushless at the major races in stk classes for a few years to come. So I will run brushed motors from time to time just to prepare for the bigger races.

Here is my only complaint with it. I have ran brushed against brushless now for almost a year. We all have had some great races. I have seen guys running brushless who were maybe a lap off the pace getting very close to the top brushed guys at the track. This is GREAT! They are feeling good about improving and are making gains...but now after I ran the brushless against them, they are back to the lap off the pace.

Myself and a few others had said that once the right ppl and the right cars showed up with brushless it was going to be the same thing as it was when everyone was running brushed.

I hate to think that some of the guys who in the past year have been 4,5 and 6 secs off tq when mixed and making the racing close could and may now be back to being a lap off the pace again..
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Old 09-05-2007, 03:44 AM   #158
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G'day ppls,

When you guys mention high 4's to low 5's in gear ratios, what size tracks/grip levels are we talking?

I've just brought my first brushless set up (TC speedie & X11 13.5), my track is on netball courts (concrete) low/medium grip and I run 6.8 with my CO27 in a FT TC4.

Any suggestions on gear ratios as a starting point would be much appreciated..

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Old 09-05-2007, 04:45 AM   #159
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what's the difference between the x-11 13.5 and Eraser 13.5 apart from price?
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:50 AM   #160
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In regards to gearing, I generally gear the car to reach top speed about 3/4 way down the longest straight. If more punch is needed, then I'd adjust accordingly. Different driving styles need different gearing. Most of the guys running brushless at the local track are geared to the moon, and some of us are geared more conservatively. The end result is about the same. The guys geared harder have more speed down the straight, but lose out in the tight sections. Just my 2 cents!
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Old 09-05-2007, 09:31 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verndog View Post
Great write up imprsme. I've heard pretty much the same, very close to the N13.5 with more of a brushed feel on the LRP. I will find out soon as our track just changed to carpet for the winter.

Has anyone played with the timing settings to see what difference it makes? I upped mine to 4 degs. from the 2 it came with, but I've been changing too many other things on the car to notice any change.
Been told to never adjust or change the timing.....
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:19 AM   #162
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Been told to never adjust or change the timing.....
Obviously you dont know who your dealing with here.

If they made it so you could adjust it...there is a reason. I've kept an eye on temps, and will continue to monitor temps and performance with changes....if I break it...I'll buy another.
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Old 12-15-2007, 05:57 PM   #163
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Has anyone run against the new Novak 13mm sintered motor yet? Dang, someone showed up with a newer Novak, and I'm speculating the new 13mm rotor cause it clearly out pulls the other Novaks and my LRP also. All the others I keep up with or better down the straights but not him. I cant gear up safely anymore either, I'm 155-165 with the new layout, and I'm not pushing it any higher.
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:59 AM   #164
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Default Help with Brushless

On a Pro 4 with brushed I would run any wear from a 32-38 depending on the track with a 98 tooth spur. The directions for the GTB SS/13.5 novak state 3 teeth higher for brushless. So does this mean what ever gear on brushed for a track I will go up or down teeth
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Old 12-30-2007, 01:46 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by fire929 View Post
On a Pro 4 with brushed I would run any wear from a 32-38 depending on the track with a 98 tooth spur. The directions for the GTB SS/13.5 novak state 3 teeth higher for brushless. So does this mean what ever gear on brushed for a track I will go up or down teeth
Novak also says that the only true way to gear the 13.5 is by temp. I run a 41mm rollout with the 13.5 on a small tech track (60'x40'). I run about an 8 second flat laptime. When going to larger tracks I will push my rollout up to about 46mm. It's kind off funny, I run pretty close to the same rollouts with my 1/12th scale and brushed motor. And the times are almost the same too. Anyways, my motor comes off the track at 160 degrees F. But it does depend a lot on the driver. The more things you hit, the hotter the motor will be, the more traction you have, the hotter the motor will be. I setup my car to have just enough traction to stay in the groove. If I get out of the groove, my car becomes loose. I also don't hit other things very often, at least with my tc.
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