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Old 06-19-2007, 02:54 PM   #76
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Russ, you say that like there is no battery war now... it's not like they will be MORE important...
at a club level there isn't. my 2 year old IB3600's are just as good on track as some others IB4200WC packs. i've got the power down the straight, got the punch out of a corner, got the runtime, etc... and i really don't even take super good care of them.
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Old 06-19-2007, 02:56 PM   #77
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i'm thinking your 3600's are better than my 3300's.. fear not, i just picked up some used 3800's so i'm good.. lol
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Old 06-19-2007, 03:12 PM   #78
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i'm thinking your 3600's are better than my 3300's.. fear not, i just picked up some used 3800's so i'm good.. lol
getting 2 to 3 years of good use is not a battery war. that was the bad old days when you needed new packs every 4 to 6 months.
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Old 06-19-2007, 03:17 PM   #79
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Lets go back in time 6 or 7 years ago.....if a guy was to show up with a stock motor from 2007 all the stock racers would say "Take a look at them going down the straight, take a look at them coming out of a corner.... They are clearly too fast to be called a "Stock"

Guess what.........equipment gets faster all the time. A 13.5 system is .2 -.4 seconds a lap faster....depending on track size. Thats not that much faster If you feel cars are too fast already why don't you propose a 5 cell limit or slowing down the existing stock motors.

But 7 years ago the rules might have been different. And technology was different. So just as the battery rules adjusted with battery technology so will stock motor rules. If the industy is moving or more importantly the racing comsumer is moving to brushless then stock motor rules will need to adjust. The big issue here is we are moving to a 100% different motor and it needs to have a leash put around its neck to ensure we have a stock class to race in 5 years down the road.

Today its easy to join a stock class race and be race legal with a brushed motor..... But since there is no rules for brushless stock its not as black and white. Once 5 or 6 companies jump in on the 13.5BL band wagon and there is a 20 to 40% performance difference between the worst to the best how do u continue to have a stock class. As it stands now a ROAR legal stock motor is regulated by price and construction that limits the ability to totally kill excisiting stock motors, yes they get faster but not 20-40% faster there simply is not that kind of room within the rules to squeezz that out legally. But with the so called stock BL nothing is stopping XYZ from producing a 13.5BL thats 200$ and 40% faster then a EX13.5BL.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:08 PM   #80
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Yes technology was different.....that was my point. Things get faster.

Now as far as rules.....I think the 3 main companys making brushless motors need to agree on specs for a motor, present them to roar and get this ball rolling.

Rumor has it specs are pretty much agreed upon.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:09 PM   #81
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Lets go back in time 6 or 7 years ago.....if a guy was to show up with a stock motor from 2007 all the stock racers would say "Take a look at them going down the straight, take a look at them coming out of a corner.... They are clearly too fast to be called a "Stock"

Guess what.........equipment gets faster all the time. A 13.5 system is .2 -.4 seconds a lap faster....depending on track size. Thats not that much faster If you feel cars are too fast already why don't you propose a 5 cell limit or slowing down the existing stock motors.
.2 - .4 seconds a lap is not much? Hahahaha have you been to an on-road race lately? Hahahaha.... You have got to be kidding me!! I'm sorry, I thought I was talking to someone that knew what he was talking about.... My bad. You have no clue!

I remember a 36 degree timed motor that blew the doors off any stock motor of today. Guess what, timing was getting rediculous so what was done??? We limited the timing.... All sports slow down to go faster... Look at IRL 7 years ago compared to today.... But look at Indy cars compared to 15 years ago?? Faster??? Oh yeah!

Or how about something r/c related.... People said that 1/10 pan car got too fast and was too easy to tune... Then touring car came out which was severely slower... People liked it better because....."They liked to be able to work on them" The very thing we are trying to get rid of with brushed motor tuning, LOL.

Evolution teaches us to make due with what we got... In the 70's the EPA started limiting cars with big engines.... What do we have today? A smaller engine with just as much horsepower and better fuel economy.

Why is ROAR the only organization in the world that caters to stock? Because we like to see a place where people can come in and be able to compete with other people on an equal playing field.... Yeah, we all know that some people have better skills with them, but Motor tuners do NOTHING that anyone else can do to the motors, its just that they have taken the time to learn how to do it and the others are lazy. 10 year old Dakotah Phend just tq'd and won both stock classes and also 19t 4wd. I know for a fact that nobody helped him tune the motors. That is a sad arguement you give.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:26 PM   #82
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Orange- Are you saying that the 10 year old didn't have a tuned motor? I don't think that is true or in offroad motor isn't important. Yeah right! It isn't that somebody can't tune their own motor, it is a fact that the motor builders get to chose from all the motors that they see. They chose the very best motors for their team guy's. This has all ways been the problem with Stock and 19t. Batteries are the same way.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:29 PM   #83
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I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT RUNNING BRUSHED AND BRUSHLESS TOGETHER

As far as me not knowing what i'm talking about........I race all the time, alot of my friends race, I help out at a hobby shop when I can, and I spend a fair amount of money racing at races not run by roar. I'm pretty sure I have a clue.

.2 - .4 seconds is not that much if you compare brushed guys running 13.6 compared to new technology bringing that time all the way down to a 13.3 second lap.


You can't run brushed and brushless together.....they are 2 completly different motors.

Instead of telling racers they don't have a clue maybe you should look in the mirror.

If roar and the other organizing bodies dont listen to the racers.......the racers will say screw you and go to non roar races or stop racing in general.

NEWS FLASH..............racers already do prefer to go to races that have nothing to do with roar.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:30 PM   #84
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Yes technology was different.....that was my point. Things get faster.

Now as far as rules.....I think the 3 main companys making brushless motors need to agree on specs for a motor, present them to roar and get this ball rolling.

Rumor has it specs are pretty much agreed upon.
Yeah, I'm dumb I know nothing about ROAR, LOL.

I know nothing about independent races either...
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:33 PM   #85
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I never said you didn't know anything about roar..........the problem is roar doesn't know anything about what racers want.

get a clue you tool
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:38 PM   #86
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So Sean when was the last time a roar race sold out in 8 hours.......how about 8 days..............how about 8 weeks............They don't..........do you know why????
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:41 PM   #87
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I never said you didn't know anything about roar..........the problem is roar doesn't know anything about what racers want.

get a clue you tool
I am a tool, 50% to be exact (Check the sig)

I'm pretty sure that ROAR is run mostly by racers.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:43 PM   #88
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So Sean when was the last time a roar race sold out in 8 hours.......how about 8 days..............how about 8 weeks............They don't..........do you know why????
Gas Nats last year, Buggy class only... one class that is... 7 days.

It would have this year if they had a limit still.

Carpet Nats sells out fairly quickly.... Not sure if it is 8 days but I am sure that is was full within a couple of weeks...

Truck Nats sold out last year.... It wasn't in a couple of weeks maybe not even a month, but it was sold out.... Combine all of the fuel offroad classes (4) and they totalled well over 450 entries, not bad.

Last edited by Orange; 06-19-2007 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:44 PM   #89
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Orange- Are you saying that the 10 year old didn't have a tuned motor? I don't think that is true or in offroad motor isn't important. Yeah right! It isn't that somebody can't tune their own motor, it is a fact that the motor builders get to chose from all the motors that they see. They chose the very best motors for their team guy's. This has all ways been the problem with Stock and 19t. Batteries are the same way.
Ummmm Handout class, Duh!

I am very sure that he was given a motor right off the top of the case o motors just like me....
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Old 06-19-2007, 04:48 PM   #90
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So what other hoops do the brushless guys need to jump through before roar considers letting them run in anything but a pro class(mod)
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