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Old 06-16-2007, 09:52 PM   #91
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I don't get it... how can foam tires be killing onroad?
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Old 06-17-2007, 01:02 AM   #92
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I don't get it... how can foam tires be killing onroad?
People continue to think rubber tires are fast until they fall off the rim. It's one of R/C's biggest fallacies. I'm not saying rubber is without merit, but it's not the bastion of tire longevity people act like it is.
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Old 06-17-2007, 04:39 AM   #93
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I don't get it... how can foam tires be killing onroad?
they're not exactly killing anything, but it creates A LOT more problems than rubber tires to beginners, such as :

droop changes

ride height also

roll center(?)

worst of all: the rollout keeps changing: so a novice has to get at least 3-4 pinions for a racing day outdoors, pointless.

plus they chunk if you put additive on it several times a day, so in fact it makes it hard for clubs to offer handout foamies, etc, etc...

plus tire truers, etc, i'm not teaching you anything anyway : foams end up being A LOT more expensive than rubbers
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Old 06-17-2007, 05:13 AM   #94
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I don't get it... how can foam tires be killing onroad?
After the Novak race this year the damage was talked about. My tire bill for three sets of rubber tires was about $90. I talked with some foam tire drivers. They said their foam tire bill was over $400 for the event! This is a major problem for the RC Racing Community. One run tires are a joke! That is how foam tires have killed on road racing.

Snowy.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:09 AM   #95
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Yeah, but, lets face it, racing is just too hard. All that time and money spent and your payoff is running a 6 or 15 minute main? And when you're not racing you have to marshall?

And unless you have major talent, you won't even get close to the front 'cause, lets face it, there are a few aces at just about every track. So basically, your role is to be the 20th entry so that the top 2-3 guys can say they were the best of 20 cars instead of the best of 5 cars that day.

Thats is what separates Racing from the stick and ball hobbies. Most people do not want to participate in anything where their chances of actually winning are very slim.

No wonder everyone gets out.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!

I've heard this from so many lower level racers, it's almost becoming an echo. Eli had it in the original post and others have touched on it. But your post hit the nail right on the head.

When a potential new racer shows up at a track, they see what is racing and want to race that class. So, if they see Touring Cars, what makes anybody think they might be interested in buying a Tamiya Mini Cooper? No, they want to race TC also. But, when they do, the stock class is dominated by sponsored and extremely experienced racers. They figure out there is little or no hope that they will ever be in the hunt for a win, and they lose that desire to keep trying.

Trying to control the costs is a waste of time. All racers will find a way around those restrictions. What we need to do is make it so spending a lot of money won't do you any good. Like slowing the cars down in the stock class. Face it, the stock class is pretty darn fast. It's fast enough that people who have been in the hobby for nearly 20 years feel it's fast enough for them. It's time to give the stock class to the beginning racers.


Once we have fixed this problem, THEN we have something we can advertise to newer racers.
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Old 06-17-2007, 08:28 AM   #96
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the more you slow down a class, sometimes, the more expensive it becomes.. it just makes better batteries and motors and chassis that much more important.. people have to WANT to run a less expensive class and and not WANT to out spend the other guys..
and like was stated earlier, most fast guys would much rather race with faster guys, but at most places there simply aren't enough to make seperate classes..
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Old 06-17-2007, 09:19 AM   #97
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If a new customer feels the effort is too large or expensive in learning to compete & win , they won`t race....

Stricter safe guard`s to keep it fair & square would do wonder`s for the stock class...

Maybe a power limit on stock motor`s and a easier way to test for the power rating ?

Then maybe the beginner would feel he too has the same chances for a victory ?


Nawwww !!!

Power ratings ?


That would never happen ......
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Old 06-17-2007, 01:35 PM   #98
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Well if we want everyone to have a chance to win.. ( politically correct ) why don't we take all the racers names and put them in a hat and draw the winners name? That would eliminate the "too fast for beginners" problem and also greatly reduce the cost of racing
Face it... racing (any form) isn't for everyone. It takes skill and dedication to become better... and yes, money. But what sport is cheap if you strive to be the best you can be?
Plus how many guys can spare the time required to Race? Generally a race day for me is at least 8 hrs... with travel time.
Add to this not only do you have to have driving skill but you also have to learn car setup, tire and batt care etc.
All this adds up to our sport/hobby isn't for most people. The type that it might appeal to are the guys that race 1/1 scale cars. These guys have some setup knowledge and know the amount of work required to win. Most of theses guys quit because of the extreme... compared to RC.... costs in big car racing.
RC can offer them most of what they liked in big car racing at a more affordable cost and is much safer..... wives like that
I think this type of person is the type we should be marketing our sport to.
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Old 06-17-2007, 02:02 PM   #99
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Here is what im thinking;

Kill foam tires and the places that only run them.

There doesnt need to be fully paid factory drivers racing in stock, they need to be running mod.

The biggest thing I see at my local track that drives new racers away is the dedication level. If you look at the people who run up front, yeah they have jobs and familys, but they work on there sedans all the time. Then the beginners wonder why they are not fast? Its like anything, you cant expect to get good if you dont practice your hobby, but when it comes to rc people just think there toys and that no matter what every car is the same and that the shocks dont ever need to be changed!

Thats my .02 for what its worth.
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Old 06-17-2007, 06:35 PM   #100
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Old 06-17-2007, 06:44 PM   #101
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Well if we want everyone to have a chance to win.. ( politically correct ) why don't we take all the racers names and put them in a hat and draw the winners name? That would eliminate the "too fast for beginners" problem and also greatly reduce the cost of racing
Face it... racing (any form) isn't for everyone. It takes skill and dedication to become better... and yes, money. But what sport is cheap if you strive to be the best you can be?
Plus how many guys can spare the time required to Race? Generally a race day for me is at least 8 hrs... with travel time.
Add to this not only do you have to have driving skill but you also have to learn car setup, tire and batt care etc.
All this adds up to our sport/hobby isn't for most people. The type that it might appeal to are the guys that race 1/1 scale cars. These guys have some setup knowledge and know the amount of work required to win. Most of theses guys quit because of the extreme... compared to RC.... costs in big car racing.
RC can offer them most of what they liked in big car racing at a more affordable cost and is much safer..... wives like that
I think this type of person is the type we should be marketing our sport to.
Come on, you know that isn't what is meant by these posts. We all know that not everybody can win, but just about everyone should feel that they have a chance.

This hobby/sport is kept alive ONLY because of the people who do it. There are no outside sponsor dollars, so we need the beginners so that we can keep the doors of the hobby shops and tracks open.

The "everybody should have a chance to win" comes into the mindset of the newer racers. When they see that the guy winning the Stock mains at the club races every week has been in the hobby for 10+ years and has a boatload of sponsors, many racers will quickly come to the conclusion that the only way to win is to outspend this guy and to get sponsored. So, they do their best for a few weeks and when they don't see any significant improvement, they leave our hobby.

If, they were to come in and see a bunch of regular racers in the Stock class, they might feel that they have a chance to make the show in the reasonable timeframe. Then, if they work for a short while and see that they are making progress toward the top stock guys, they'll stick with it and keep racing. They don't have to win, they have to feel like they have a chance to win.


At the last 3 tracks I raced at regularly, we could almost NEVER get a modified or even 19 turn class. And we had drivers who were more than capable. But, the most common complaint from these drivers was that the cost of running either of those classes kept them out. So, they stuck to the Stock class because it was still very fast, especially on your typical indoor carpet tracks.

When the entry-level (based on ROAR rules) becomes the premier class at the local level, then you know that the rules need some fixing.
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Old 06-17-2007, 07:09 PM   #102
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After the Novak race this year the damage was talked about. My tire bill for three sets of rubber tires was about $90. I talked with some foam tire drivers. They said their foam tire bill was over $400 for the event! This is a major problem for the RC Racing Community. One run tires are a joke! That is how foam tires have killed on road racing.

Snowy.
WOW I had no idea! I thought foam tires were great things until I heard this information. Thanks!
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Old 06-17-2007, 07:29 PM   #103
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Come on, you know that isn't what is meant by these posts. We all know that not everybody can win, but just about everyone should feel that they have a chance.

This hobby/sport is kept alive ONLY because of the people who do it. There are no outside sponsor dollars, so we need the beginners so that we can keep the doors of the hobby shops and tracks open.

The "everybody should have a chance to win" comes into the mindset of the newer racers. When they see that the guy winning the Stock mains at the club races every week has been in the hobby for 10+ years and has a boatload of sponsors, many racers will quickly come to the conclusion that the only way to win is to outspend this guy and to get sponsored. So, they do their best for a few weeks and when they don't see any significant improvement, they leave our hobby.

If, they were to come in and see a bunch of regular racers in the Stock class, they might feel that they have a chance to make the show in the reasonable timeframe. Then, if they work for a short while and see that they are making progress toward the top stock guys, they'll stick with it and keep racing. They don't have to win, they have to feel like they have a chance to win.


At the last 3 tracks I raced at regularly, we could almost NEVER get a modified or even 19 turn class. And we had drivers who were more than capable. But, the most common complaint from these drivers was that the cost of running either of those classes kept them out. So, they stuck to the Stock class because it was still very fast, especially on your typical indoor carpet tracks.

When the entry-level (based on ROAR rules) becomes the premier class at the local level, then you know that the rules need some fixing.
Come on... anyone that walks in the door at a track, watches guys race and thinks they can win right away is not being realistic. Anyone who tries it for a month and gives up because he cant run with the fast guys who have years of experience isn't cut out for this form of RC.
All that has to happen for the new guy to see its not how much you spend that makes you win is for him to have a "fast" guy wheel his car in practice. Then ask him why the fast guy runs a half second or more faster with his car motor and battery.
As stated a thousand time before in countless threads new racers dont belong in the stock class... its too fast and too competitive. They need a slower class with racers of their own ability to run against.
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Old 06-17-2007, 07:33 PM   #104
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Well if we want everyone to have a chance to win.. ( politically correct ) why don't we take all the racers names and put them in a hat and draw the winners name? That would eliminate the "too fast for beginners" problem and also greatly reduce the cost of racing
Face it... racing (any form) isn't for everyone. It takes skill and dedication to become better... and yes, money. But what sport is cheap if you strive to be the best you can be?
Plus how many guys can spare the time required to Race? Generally a race day for me is at least 8 hrs... with travel time.
Add to this not only do you have to have driving skill but you also have to learn car setup, tire and batt care etc.
All this adds up to our sport/hobby isn't for most people. The type that it might appeal to are the guys that race 1/1 scale cars. These guys have some setup knowledge and know the amount of work required to win. Most of theses guys quit because of the extreme... compared to RC.... costs in big car racing.
RC can offer them most of what they liked in big car racing at a more affordable cost and is much safer..... wives like that
I think this type of person is the type we should be marketing our sport to.
i don't think for a minute that people believe there shouldn't be fast classes or fast cars , but that there needs to be an alternative for folks to atleast either get started, or just race for fun.. formula 1 drivers get their start in gokarts, they don't go down to NEWMAN/HAAS, and say hey this is great i'll take two...
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Old 06-17-2007, 07:43 PM   #105
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Come on... anyone that walks in the door at a track, watches guys race and thinks they can win right away is not being realistic. Anyone who tries it for a month and gives up because he cant run with the fast guys who have years of experience isn't cut out for this form of RC.
Thank you. I believe that is one of the problems some guys have. I participated in my first race this past weekend. Did I go expecting to beat guys that have been racing for years? NO, I went with all intentions of giving someone one heck of a race for last. That's being realistic for someone running a TC for the first time and their first race of any kind. I did manage to beat a couple people, but most importantly had a great time, learned a little bit, got some experience and can't wait until the next race.
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