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Old 06-16-2007, 02:12 AM   #61
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Default my two cents

Being a new person to the hobby, the most significant factor in my opinion is initial cost, convienience and cost to maintain.

Last year (in May), I purchased an AE18MT after seing a demo at a NLL (National Lacross League) game. I was infatuated with how fast the cars could go and wanted to get one of my own.

Upon going to the LHS, I was suprised on how much a 1/10 scale was and could not go home with this as my other half would shoot me. So I settled with the 18MT because it was RTR and half the cost. After bashing with this kit for about a 9 months, I decided to check out a local club. When I got there, I became more infatuated and now have the urge to get into the larger scale because that is what most people race. So here I am with a 1/18 scale and about 95% race 1/10. The fun in racing is not present until I purchase a new kit.

Now comes the additional costs of buying a 1/10 scale kit, but I don't want to be one who is losing if I purchase a mid range kit trying to compete against Xray's. How much do I need to spend to have fun? or to be competitive. My mind swings back and forth since going to the club for the first time (in February of this year) and it is hard to justify the costs alone.

Some club racers suggest used or a 1/10 mini, but then it still is hard to decide because there is so many options and the market is cluttered.

My thougts are to have a narrower choice for someone like myself, which would make it easier to decide what to buy and would close the gap between a novice racer vs an experienced one.

I feel that the distance between the two are too far apart from each other and companies or groups have to find a way to bridge the gap together. The idea of the tamiya class races are very good.
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Old 06-16-2007, 03:06 AM   #62
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Go run RC infront of every MRT station, dude. Buying 2nd one in local shop soon
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Old 06-16-2007, 05:31 AM   #63
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Racing should be open class only then the top guys will be at the top and the whole field will sort its self out you wont get sand baggers in stock and 19turn as to be reconised as good will have to run faster setups its the way it was when I started off road I made the D/E final but thats because that was as quick as I could go but with practice I started to move up until I was able to make the A WHY have classes thats what makes it hard for new guys as they dont know weather to run stock, 19turn or mod just run open it will work it does for off road.

Just 1 Class
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Old 06-16-2007, 07:36 AM   #64
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The electric R/C future is bright. By that we now have brushless motors( basically no maintanence- no brushes to cut or com)& the coming of lipo batteries. Chassis for TC is open with many manufacturers. Radios now we have spectrum ( no more spare crystals to bring). If you check with the LHS and the place where everyone races they can tell you the popular chassis. A newcomer should get something that is sold locally so they may ge parts. You lose interest if your waiting for parts coming in the mail.By a used chassis to save your self some money.If you by good equipment you can always sell it to someone. If you buy cheap it's harder for you to get any money back later.
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Old 06-16-2007, 08:01 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxRain View Post
My thougts are to have a narrower choice for someone like myself, which would make it easier to decide what to buy and would close the gap between a novice racer vs an experienced one.
Here in Chicagoland we have many tracks to choose where to race, all about an hour away.

My boys and I have been racing about 5 years. So we have gone from total newbies to now owning all kinds of vehicles and racing once a week.

The tracks we have raced at created classes that made it easier on the pocketbook to be competitive in 1/10th scale.

For the indoor season off road 19 turn truck is a good example. For indoor, carpet sedans, running stock motors and rubber tires makes for a competitive and affordable class.

Outdoors is another beast, but around here a person with a RTR off road 1/8th scale can easily make it to the top of the B Main with driving skills. On road nitro can be fun with a RTR too. Choosing the track to run at around here will determine if you make an A Main.
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Old 06-16-2007, 08:14 AM   #66
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[/QUOTE]Sponsored drivers.... sposored drivers should not be running stock! rubber or foam we all know that you are way faster then all of us! you are gettin parts cheaper, motors and the list goes on for miles! its not fair that the kid that is kinda fast goes to his big race and sees full blown sponsored guys running 4 seconds faster then he is! that is where you loose your young blood! they become embaresed to be beat that badly! if you are fully sponsored you should have the supplies to run mod or even 19t! just not stock!
this is just my thought you dont have to agree with it.[/QUOTE]

I agree this is a problem, however its not just sponsored drivers, there are some folks, who will remain nameless, seem to stay at the stock level rather than stepping up to 19t spec or open simply because they are top dog in the stock class. While many tracks state that once you win your class a few times you have to step up it is not enforced at all. I race in SoCal, where all the teams and their drivers are based and as you can imagine the competition is intense, given that you have the sponsored drivers there and the "auditioners" so everyone wants to do well to get noticed. Now a lot of the guys looking for a sponsor run 19t and they are for the most part very skilled which creates a problem, all the fast guys in stock are under the impression that they cannot compete and so elect to stay in stock which is what causes the issue.

Having said all of that, I have been running stock sportsman for the lat 5 weeks, I am not a total newb, I came in from 2wd buggy and 1/10 Nitro TC and I have been making steady progress through the stock class. 1st 3 races dead last have been working on my setup with the Team Losi guys (A BIG THANKYOU TO, Ron, Allan Hewitt, Jason Schreffler, Todd Hodge et al for their help and support getting the car settled) and have started making progress through the field currently running 5th/6th average and thats against some of the toughest competition out there in stock.

So the issue really comes down to TIME and COMMITMENT if you cant dedicate the time to setup and practice you will NOT progress in ANY class! This is what separates the bashers from the racers.

FIRSTOFF there needs to be an entry level and it has to be made CHEAP this will allow people to get into the hobby

Those that want to step up will do so through determination and knowledge those that dont wont
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Old 06-16-2007, 08:28 AM   #67
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I have been in this hobby for more than 25years( some of you weren't born when I stated, no offense) and have seen a great development in cars, motors but especially in the batteries. In the early days we'd run 1200sc (the yellow ones) with ayk stock motors (the first with changealbe brushes) in our 1/12 car. Today we run lipos, brushless in our high end anodized allow and carbon racing cars. So what brings the future? Well that is up to YOU. If we want brushless rockets on the track and we are willing to pay the price for it, manufacturers are developing them for us! Besides of that, I have seen people buying equipment of cars becase they were the best because other say so and then they bought it and........thet couldn't drive it! In other words it is still the man behind the wheel that let the car crosses the finish line that is why Masami holds several World titles not because he has the best car.
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:26 AM   #68
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Just because someone is sponsored does not mean they have the motor and batteries you can't get. With the new batteries out now and the lipos run time is not a problem. Now if you want to believe all the nice numbers on the batteries go ahead. If you can't drive you can have the greatest numbers on the side of the battery and it won't do you any good. Motors I'm driving the protype 13.5 from Novak (got it a year ago).It's still competitive and I'm driving with last years 4200's in the State Series.The only thing that's hurting me is wheel time.Oh the Car I drive is the old RDX (when they first came out). I am get one of the new RDX Phi's soon.Practice is the key. Some people your never going to beat. At the factories have guys in the stock class- deal with it.If you can't have any fun going out and racing then your in the wrong hobby.Keeping people in the hobby- don't laugh at the guy with the plastic chassis or very old car that he got a great deal on.That chases away more people that I know of over the years.
I've got to say this about some sponored drivers equipment.A long time ago I was given a motor by a motor person. He knew the motor won't work that great but he gave it to me to try. Guess what I out qualified several of the other guys with the better motor. I the main I was winning until the last minute when the body came loose.Another time I got my motor and it was better or recieved mine before the other drivers got theirs.At the time I was a 50% driver( the others were 100%).
But nowadays motors and batteries - It doesn't hold any water with me.Practice is 95% of the problem.Learning how to set -up the cars ( find someone to help you out).Buy good equipment- you can always sell it laster.
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:28 AM   #69
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I have gotten our cub to adopt a Mabuchi 540 as the handout motor for our novice class.
I felt that new racers were just going too fast for their own good. Guys and kids
would show up with anything from stock motors to 3.5T brushless. They would show
up thinking "ok now I have enough motor to keep up with the other guy". The problem
is they would tear up their car, overshoot corners, still get out-motored. Then
they would have to buy a bunch of parts, a faster motor, and they still lost. I
think the 540 has a lot of benefits. It's compatible with almost every ESC ever made,
speeds are manageable and fair, and they are cheap enough for my little club to buy
as handouts. This fall we'll give it a try. In testing this motor before deciding
on it, a very experienced racer lost 3-4 laps on a 9.0 sec track and a novice racer
gained a lap. Also, a 5 min run used only 1200 mah, which would go a long way towards
eliminating battery inequalities. I think this will help build a base of racers that
get better shot at learning the racing basics before getting overwhelmed with
battery/motor voodoo and battery/motor/car of the month spending habits.
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Old 06-16-2007, 09:43 AM   #70
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My 3quid's worth (you can keep the change) if any

UK side
cars are just to fast for the new comer's
loads & loads of experienced racers believe that 'EVERYONE' can control a car like them selve's when they start out & don't give a time of day for the newbie's
they think that new kid drives really crappy ,`i never did when i started out`quirk is the reply

them guy's forget how slow there car was when they started out compared to the cars of today


if 1 class would do it
i would not like to see the a young racer using BL when the same kid was bleedin liabilty with a 27t on track


Company's also buggered up the hobby aswell
buy trying to make it into some thing it can't be

to many chargers & dischargers & cars being turned out so quickly it has made the hobby to diffulcult to get into ,with out fear of buying the wrong piece of equipment at the time

just bollocked's basically for the next couple of years till it settles down

(PS just my 3 quids worth ,no one else's
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Old 06-16-2007, 10:08 AM   #71
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Technology has made the cars so fast today, and now the newcomer finds it hard to keep up with the top drivers and they give up.

Adding to the fact it can be *very* expensive to buy everything of a good standard to compete well. Also we have too much choice and maybe too many classes imho.

Some guys will go way over the top for club meetings too,at extremes, skimming and rebrushing after each run for example, what is the point? This kind of routine can scare the newcomers off.

Wednesday night I used a 1 year old stock motor with its original brushes. Just gave it a skim and clean and it was good to go

Racing doesnt have to be expensive and that should be supported as much as possible, some how, at club level.
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:04 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by GCracker View Post
FIRSTOFF there needs to be an entry level and it has to be made CHEAP this will allow people to get into the hobby

Those that want to step up will do so through determination and knowledge those that dont wont
What about "Mardave V12- style " cars ?

i hear it is (was ?) popular in the UK.

basically it's a pan car with :

no suspension ,or almost,

nothing to break on a crash, or almost, and

a very limited choice of (rubber) tires,

but a decent choice of bodyshells...

no diff to clean and rebuild , or adjust,

no subtile front end (with reactive caster etc)

2wd so the driving requires some serious skills...

4cells (cheaper than 6),

silver can motors( no as cheap as be they're supposed to be, i know )

it fits in a big backpack with the TX, charger ,tools etc...

ABS boby, tougher than lexan etc

IMHO the key word here should be "handout" ! I feel that the standardization of the wheel hubs is very important ( at least in each specific class,of course) so that everyone in a given class can race with the same wheels and tires, the same day ! :1 set of tires /per racer /per day/per class, period !!!

I would love to run in such a class ! then those who want to go faster could switch to 1/12 if they want to keep the 4cell system, or switch to touring cars if they prefer having handout tires.

(sometimes i find myself daydreaming about this type of car, but with a LIPO/BL combo, of course....

www.oople.com has a short article about the Mardave V12, I will try to put a link...

That could be the saviour of our hobby !

edit :http://www.oople.com/rc/mardave.html

Last edited by heretic; 06-16-2007 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:10 AM   #73
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Also we have too much choice and maybe too many classes imho.
Did you know the AMA has over 200 classes of competition?

The problem isn't too many classes, the problem is there's little definition between the classes. When pro level drivers run stock at their local tracks because there is no mod class, what's the sense?

What you do between rounds depends on the competition. If you can use a year old motor and still be competitive, fine. At my track if you don't have your A game stuff you're lucky to make the B.

Things I would like to see, and this mostly applies to on road:

Stock needs to be a low level class, either for beginners or those without the skills. Pro level racers who want to run a spec motor class should be in 19 turn.

The rules for stock motors must be more restrictive. Full arms and specific springs and brushes. The biggest problem in stock is specialty tuners who can squeeze that much more power. A tiny boost in power means a big difference in lap times. Add that to the driving skill of someone who puts in that much time and the average sportsman racer has no chance of competing.

In fact for next year stock should be a spec brushless class. Brushless takes away most of the tuning and there's less maintenance.

For touring car we need to come up with an inexpensive class where chassis rules come into play. Right off the bat BAN GRAPHITE!!! That's the single biggest part of the price of a new TC. Also on the local level promote the class for one generation older cars. You can't run a TC5, but you can run a TC4 or TC3. Also cars like the T2R or even Tamiya TA-05's. If you spent more that $300 on your TC, you belong in a different (higher) class.

You don't need to spend a lot of money to have fun racing. Proof of that is the Tamiya Mini class.
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:30 AM   #74
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Are manufacturers going to make fiberglass chassis? I doubt it.They won't sell.Why because the hobby shops and drivers are all going to tell the new guy graphite. Now your idea about the older chassis is good.As I've seen it down here in my neck of the woods getting enough people to compete in the class because of the chassis that would be difficult. There is not enough drivers for that class.But where you have enough - go for it.
As for motors brushless- just make a specific gear ratio.You can come close with the different final gear ratios and it won't make a difference!When a overall gear ratio of one car is a 5.16 and two others were just under 4.50 and the higher gear ratio was TQ.Raced heads up with the TQ car twice and he was not any faster- just smoother in the corners.
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Old 06-16-2007, 11:48 AM   #75
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I agree this is a problem, however its not just sponsored drivers, there are some folks, who will remain nameless, seem to stay at the stock level rather than stepping up to 19t spec or open simply because they are top dog in the stock class. While many tracks state that once you win your class a few times you have to step up it is not enforced at all. I race in SoCal, where all the teams and their drivers are based and as you can imagine the competition is intense, given that you have the sponsored drivers there and the "auditioners" so everyone wants to do well to get noticed. Now a lot of the guys looking for a sponsor run 19t and they are for the most part very skilled which creates a problem, all the fast guys in stock are under the impression that they cannot compete and so elect to stay in stock which is what causes the issue.
What if I don't want to move up? What if I enjoy stock racing more than 19T, more than modified? Why force me into something I do not want to do? There aren't enough racers available to make a "Pro Stock" class, so what's a guy to do who loves racing brushed stock?

People often look down on guys who have been racing stock for 5+ years, saying behind their back that they are sand bagging and need to move into something faster; but why? Why can't there be a class of guys who just love stock racing? What a lot of you see as the 'problem' with stock racing, is what I love about stock racing...being able to work a tame motor into something decent is a lot of fun.

Instead of moving up, I'm moving OUT of racing because I'm tired of the infighting, the nit picking, and the whining just because there are "pro's" who love racing stock. I'm spending more time behind my computer, behind my XBOX because I'm tired of other people whining that we're all "sandbagging."

The hobby and racing in general are kind of in a sad state, especially in on road, because in my opinion you have the competition of other activities (like already said...tv, video games..other hobbies..) and the attitudes of existing racers increasing the attrition rate of those who do try to stick with racing. You have fewer and fewer people TRYING the hobby, and more and more people driving those few who do try OUT of the hobby.

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For touring car we need to come up with an inexpensive class where chassis rules come into play. Right off the bat BAN GRAPHITE!!! That's the single biggest part of the price of a new TC. Also on the local level promote the class for one generation older cars. You can't run a TC5, but you can run a TC4 or TC3. Also cars like the T2R or even Tamiya TA-05's. If you spent more that $300 on your TC, you belong in a different (higher) class.
Trinity already tried that with their T-SPEC car, motor, and batteries ... remember? It was cheap, easy, and even had a full editorial backing by XRC's DericB in one of their issues when the car was released. He said we should all give spec racing a try, and nobody did..

What happened to the car? Dismal sales..no racing..no support from anyone who's actually racing. People say they want a even class where we can have some cheap racing that everyone can enjoy and is user friendly - when it's finally put together and dropped in your lap it ends up being resold on eBay for half the price paid.
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