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Old 06-15-2007, 12:58 PM   #16
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one problem we are having is the numbers of cars available in an already niche market.. normaly on an open market, competition brings prices down, but in a niche market it dilutes the money and production costs go up per unit..

also you can't outlaw carbon chassis and such, that just means that as soon as joe newbie gets better and wants to move up he has to buy a whole new sled..

brushless and lipo (hard cased to limit matching and boosting ya ya ya) will help curb the headaches most newbies have getting going.

i'd love to see truely different classes like pan cars, F1, or anything else catch on just for some dang variety! i've been reintroduced to pancars and can't for the life of me figure out why anybody wants to run anything else.. simple, fast as anything on the planet and cheap to buy run and maintain..

as steve said get the races where people can see them. we have put on events at carshows, and our regular onroad races are in front of HOME DEPOT and offorad in a major public park (our club is growing too)..

not sure how to handle the "fast guys" in the "slow class" problem, but it is a problem.. you'd swear that they gave away GFX's and much more chargers when you go to tracks, and folks are racing stock???? of coarse, when there was a "spec class" they had cases of them dyno'd and a dozen spec batteries to find the hott ones of them too so... is thee nolonger a "lets just race and have fun class" that's how we ran our pancars..
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:14 PM   #17
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Very good Steve, and I believe that you are on the right track. No pun intended.. I believe, and you all can flame me for this, but the industry need to slow the cars way down for the newbies (begineers). I see people buying cars to play with at the local level and crashing them so fast. Most of them get tired of having to spend more and more money all the time in repairing them, and they just sell their stuff or you never see them again. My personal opinion would be to:

Have the manufacturers make a slower motor. Novak brushless or the other motor manufacturers having a 35 turn small wire or similar wind. Possibly using the stand-up brushes and hoods.

We can still have the 19 turn classes and modified, but this would help move the faster stock guys up to the other classes and give the not-so-experience and talented racers a chance to win at the old stock level.

Keep the paid and 100 percent sponsored racers in mod only!

Go to 4 cells for touring cars - This option probably is coming along with Lipo's. Slow the cars way down and the experienced racers will move up. What do you all think? Flame - on
All of this is very true. Plus, the sheer price drives people away. A good car is from $200-$400, motors go out every so often $50, rubber tires $35 a set, parts $??, entry fees, distances to drive, batteries are a ridiculous $80 for a good pack and you need at least 3, a good charger costs over $100, ESC's can be had for less than $100 and more. Prices need to come down further for new racers to flock in. Why would a new comer race for hundreds of dollars rather than bash for free? Plus the spec class that allows no hop-ups would not work IMO. Racers like to upgrade and some cars need to be upgraded in order to not break or compete. I think a Loose Spec class should be brought to all tracks. A class that allows cars with plastic tub chassis such as the Cyclone S, TAO5, TC4, TC3, XXX-S, and more. The class should have the option of a handout 30t motor or something pretty slow with handout tires so no tires truing is needed. If you race in the Loose Spec class for a whole season then you have to bump up to the stock class. It will help to keep new racers in and the faster ones in other classes.

Edit: I also agree with tallyrc. These races NEED to be televised or at least in local papers. ESPN would rather show soccer or Speed Cup Stacking than a RC race. Speed would rather show the future plan of Ford, which nobody cares to watch, rather than a RC race. I consider it an insult that we get no media coverage from any major or minor communications company.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:21 PM   #18
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Hey ALL hobbies cost lots of money. Just support your local club get involved with the running you will never get turned away for wanting to help believe me. Turn up to club racing days/nights make the club enjoyable to attend think of ideas beyond motors and batteries these will always change. Make coming to the club the main point. We run (In the UK) Wednesday nights stock, Super stock and open all brushless run in the open. We have hot and cold drinks and chocolate at the tuck shop which people like, all under flood light. On a Sunday we run the same but a few more rounds of qualifying have a BBQ and the tuck shop it makes the day more enjoyable and brings in some extra money for the club to improve. Just support your local club it is so important and to be honest more enjoyable than a big meeting.

We have each week new people wanting information about the club the biggest question that they ask is how much does it cost just donít reel of what your gear has cost because that will make them run a mile it would me.

In the end you will have a very good club full of people that enjoy coming to the club and racing. Have tyre rules to keep the cost down without clubs itís a pointless hobby.

The problem with this hobby is all the people that believe they are better than they are all the drivers that get trade +vat deals sponsored my arse its marketing they spend more than most because they think they have a deal.
Be real go club racing and top drivers should be made to attend clubs in there local area as part of the deal they have.

Make an effort with your local club it needs your help get involved. more people will turn up if it looks a laugh.

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Old 06-15-2007, 01:27 PM   #19
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hmmmmmm

http://www.rctech.net/forum/search.php?searchid=2559927

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Old 06-15-2007, 01:35 PM   #20
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Our local carpet track re-introduced 1/10th pan car racing in the form of the Speed Merchant Speed Spec sedan. It is a themed race. This month the theme is muscle cars. The chassis is designed around 4 cells and we all race with the old silver can stock motors. The experienced drivers are driving along side the inexperienced, and there usually is no problems with them feeling out driven. To be honest, the cars really don't go fast enough to break a lot of parts, not much of any, really. The fun part is to see the pro's having a blast peeling each other, some really good battles have been fought on our Tuesday night racing.

On another note... Do something with your races that will keep people interested in racing straight through the summer. So far our summer carpet series has more attendees than our winter races did. We are doing this by doing kind of a pot-luck bbq thing. Racers bring in food, we break out a grill and sentence Shawn (Team Kwik motor tuner) to cooking outside for us.

I'm not saying that everyone has to do this, but, use your imagination and think of things that will turn a race night into something that people will look forward to coming to. The bait works. When combined with racing, the numbers tend to support themselves.

I have often felt that at our track we have a unique situation. Since carpet is largely new-ish to the mid New England area where our track is located in Fitchburg, MA, we have a lot of new drivers from the area. We have a great group of racers that are interested in seeing attendance grow. People take an interest in newer racers, and always want to help someone along. The exchange of information is great. Not many secrets are kept from people. If anything, newbies feel overwhelmed with new knowledge when they leave our track for the first couple of months. This is the whole reason for the BBQ summer series that we do. Educate and incubate new racers. By fall, they are up to speed with at least the intermediate crowd.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:37 PM   #21
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I agree with Steve W, this hobby needs to find a way to get Rc in the public eye, either through televised events, or some kind of demo at an event like a fair, something needs to be done to get public attention.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:52 PM   #22
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Posted on Roar Sponsorship discussion between Tekin and Dawn at Roar

I have been involved in r/c on and off for 30 years and started with electric and switched to nitro and have now reverted back to electric. I took a 10 year sabatical from racing (got married, had a son things were a little hectic) and returned to racing in 2003. After buying my kit and building it and practicing with it (losi 2wd buggy) I decided to go to my local track to try it out only problem was that my local track is now 70 miles away OOPS!. Being a diehard I went anyway and was even more shocked to find 12 people on site. When I think back to the early 80s through early 90s if you didnt show up early you wouldnt get a decent pit bench because of the numbers that showed up. When my son saw me buy the buggy at close to $1000 he nearly fell over he was amazed that an rc car could cost that much. I assured him it would be worth every cent. Needless to say my 11 year old and his friends are all into xbox, PS2, Wii etc etc. So for the week that I spent building the kit my son and his friends would come by to see how things were going but would find it amusing that I was playing with my "toy" car and spent endless hours joshing me about it. When I finished the kit and had an oppourtunity to do some basic setup and break in an 11turn motor I called my son and his buddies outside and basically thrashed the buggy for 3 batts on gravel tarmac and grass. To say that the kids were impressed was an understatement I couldnt stop them from fighting each other to have a go. As of today 4 of the 5 children present now own rc cars or trucks including my son and they enjoy bashing and racing equally.

The point is this.....................If rc is going to go anywhere it has to be done from the grass roots period. When I was 6 I got my first reall rc car (tamiya holiday bug) and I grew up with the sport and through today I have at least $10-$15k of rc cars, trucks, helis and boats in my garage (including their own craftsman tool chest and workbench )

R/c in my opinion has declined enormously in the last 20 years and unless you can do something to drag these kids from their game consoles you will be lost in the "noise" of everything else that just washes by them. You need to get out there and show them what s there, none of these kids read rc car mags so unless you put it IN THEIR FACE they wont even know it exists.

Last but not least, and this is dead true, you can ask mom and dad...........

What made me want an r/c car when I was 6??? I was at the mall with my mom and in the middle of the mall was an open space probably about 60x40 with a makeshift rc track and there were about 7 or 8 guys demo racing around the track from 10am until 6pm and I was amazed at how fast these things were and I refused to leave until it was all over,it was in my young and naive mind the best thing since sliced bread. So from March until May 2nd, my birthday, I wouldnt let up on my parents, I had to have a 1/10 scale rc car and come my birthday guess what I got my first rc car and havent looked back since.

If you want to spend ur $$$s get out there and put it out there to the public. I have been to one major event in 1987, I will probably never be a sponsored driver or race at a national event but I enjoy my club racing and would love the chance to go to a regional event. My kid and his friends all want to race but dont want to travel 70 miles to the "local" track so unless you can stimulate a grass roots movement in the r/c world you wont have to worry about sponsoring major events because there simply wont be a big enough number of joe shmos like me buying your products to support your business in the long run.

Old cronies like me (36) are essentially maintaining what little interest there is left in this hobby its up to you guys to do something about it. So get out there and DO IT!!!
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:55 PM   #23
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All of this is very true. Plus, the sheer price drives people away. A good car is from $200-$400, motors go out every so often $50, rubber tires $35 a set, parts $??, entry fees, distances to drive, batteries are a ridiculous $80 for a good pack and you need at least 3, a good charger costs over $100, ESC's can be had for less than $100 and more. Prices need to come down further for new racers to flock in. Why would a new comer race for hundreds of dollars rather than bash for free?
Tamiya Mini Swift: $129 for a slower (2wd, Mabuchi motor), tough (Tamiya), low maintenance (Mabuchi sealed motor) kit. And for anyone that has raced minis or watched a mini race, you know they are great fun and close racing.

The $129 includes a motor and I believe a Tamiya speed control.

Every time I read on here about a newb asking for first car advice it seems there are 10 people that say "get an X-Ray" or get an Evo 5, or whatever.

Get a Tamiya mini Swift ($129), 3 stick packs ($100), and a Duratrax Ice charger ($100), and you still have $70 to spend on oil shocks, tires, etc. for a grand total of $400 (I guess you need to add another $150 or so for a decent radio).

I agree about getting RC racing out in public. Tonight I'm heading to a hot air balloon rally at a local county fairground where the RC club is having a demonstration during the idle times of the balloon rally. That's what's needed to get this hobby in front of the general public.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:59 PM   #24
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I don't think slowing down the cars will increase numbers...

I have several nephews who are in junior high right now (the same time I began racing RC cars) and they're not very interested in racing. They'd rather play X-Box or mess around with online games. If they could choose between $3,000 worth of RC gear or a $3,000 gaming computer, they'd go with the gaming computer every time. Let's face it. Kids these days aren't as interested in this hobby as my generation or the generation before mine and I don't think there's anything "we" can do to change that. Blame Al Gore for inventing the internet.
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:00 PM   #25
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I feel that the future of this hobby is somewhat confused. And what I mean by this is that we have so many choices when it comes to chassis, bodies, batteries, motors, so on... With so many choices, it can be daunting for a new comer when it comes to choosing the right equipment. You can have the fastest guy at the track running an Xray and a Novak brushless system. So automatically, the new comer looks to the fast guy and says "Wow, your fast! What equipment do you have?" The Fast guy start telling the new guy about his stuff and seems keen on getting whatever the fast guy has. Then the New comer checks online hobby shops(which is a part of the problem as well) and finds out that the fast guy has over $1000 wrapped up in his equipment. The new person is discouraged until he comes across a RTR TT-01. He thinks "yeah, thats all I need!" so he shows up at the track the following race day and puts the car on the track. Immediately, he is passed by everyone and cannot figure out why his $170 rc car cant keep up with the $1000 ones... so, dejected, he returns home and shelfs the car for good.

Its a long story, I know, but it proves a point. And that point is, given the level of competition at today's track, you have to have the best equipment to even be competitive. I think that there needs to be a Novice class where you get a handout motor before the race and an "official" installs it in your car for you. Your car is then set aside in a special holding area of sorts until your race. This would eliminate the possibility of cheating. Why you would want to cheat in a novice class is beyond me, but im sure many people would try given the opportunity.

Recently, Nexus Racing has been running some parking lot races in the lot near their storefront. The race fee is $5 and you get 3 heats and a main, plus practice. I can say that without a doubt, these have been the funnest races I have been to. Everyone is very helpful, and the atmosphere is VERY relaxed. These are the kind of races that I feel there should be more of. We have already had a few new drivers come to watch, and by the next race they had a car and were racing with us. I think it is great for the sport and I hope that we will continue to bring new people into the hobby. THAT is the future if you ask me.
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:06 PM   #26
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Timmay! I think you guys are pointed in the right direction.

To get more people into RC it needs to be made simpler and easier and with less emphasis on speed, performance and winning and more emphasis on fun. That requires a spec class that anybody can get into and on the pace with very little time, effort, or cost.

Every hardcore racer who just read that just said to themselves "Not For Me!" But this isnt for the guys who already race every weekeend, Its for the guys who tried racing and gave up for what ever reason. Remember for every 1 racer who stays with it 3-5 leave and would have to be something aimed at getting them back to the track.

Think outside the box.
How about 1/10 scale 4wd rubber tired touring cars with NASCAR bodies running a paved Oval (or dirt) with Lipos and modest motors and NO carbon fiber parts allowed. 20+ entires running a 20+ minutes feature where the results are mostly determined by luck. And When the announcer says leader 'behind you' that means block him for all its worth hoping a caution comes out.
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:08 PM   #27
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there is no doubt that our hobby is eroding for a multitude of reasons. my buddy and i one night sat over some burgers and thought long and hard as to why.. we thought money.. we thought frustrations.. we thought personality conflicts... you name it we tried to pin it down.. when in the end we realized it's simply a matter of fun.. how you measure that is up to you.. all these things we thought might be the problems, only mattered if it wasn't enough FUN to get past the parts that did bother us... like this.. is the hobby expensive? yepp, but i usually enjoy myself that it is worth it.. do i get along with everyone all the time? nope, but 99% of the time i race with folks i proudly call friends.. do i get frustrated when things don't go right? you bet, but more often than not it beats mowing the lawn or changing diapers at home..

in august i'm likely moving back to florida and for what i spend racing my rc cars, i'll be able to buy a nice little boat to ski or fish from.. after having been in this hobby for some 20 or so years, i'll likely be decidng between the two based on what is more fun..
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:11 PM   #28
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there is no doubt that our hobby is eroding for a multitude of reasons. my buddy and i one night sat over some burgers and thought long and hard as to why.. we thought money.. we thought frustrations.. we thought personality conflicts... you name it we tried to pin it down.. when in the end we realized it's simply a matter of fun.. how you measure that is up to you.. all these things we thought might be the problems, only mattered if it wasn't enough FUN to get past the parts that did bother us... like this.. is the hobby expensive? yepp, but i usually enjoy myself that it is worth it.. do i get along with everyone all the time? nope, but 99% of the time i race with folks i proudly call friends.. do i get frustrated when things don't go right? you bet, but more often than not it beats mowing the lawn or changing diapers at home..

in august i'm likely moving back to florida and for what i spend racing my rc cars, i'll be able to buy a nice little boat to ski or fish from.. after having been in this hobby for some 20 or so years, i'll likely be decidng between the two based on what is more fun..
dont bother with the boat its cheaper to rent, I have a 40ft Hunter and when I get the bill every month I feel like it would be easier to stand in a cold shower and tear up $100 bills..........
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:15 PM   #29
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I race because it's real. After working on a computer day and night all week, busting my ass to grow my business, it's easy to feel completely removed from the real world. My weekly trek across town to the track, and night in the heat racing with a bunch of cool, like-minded guys is the highlight of my week.

Are video games and computer stuff more easy, and sometimes more interesting? Yea. But I'm burned out and jaded after a lifetime of that stuff, and racing is like a little mini-vacation each week. It took me a long time to get to that point.

Those things are still new and exciting to kids. Getting them interested in something else is a challenge, and when it's something that's expensive, it's probably not even the best option in many cases.

Maybe we should stop targeting kids so much, and rather, target a slightly older crowd that might finally be getting tired of all the other distractions, and wants to do something real for a change.
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:19 PM   #30
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Great points.

So, instead of getting RC in front of the shopping mall crowd, we should be getting it out in front of the race fans, car lovers,... Have demos at local car shows, local races (maybe stadium truck dirt oval racing demo at your "real" local dirt track.
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