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Old 01-20-2008, 06:11 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Team Crash View Post
YOU CANT STICK NEW PEOPLE WITH OTHERS IT IS THAT FRICKIN SIMPLE!!!!!!
Sounds like you need to find a different place to race. If the track you regularly attend doesn't know you are are unhappy they either aren't paying attention or you aren't communicating your feelings.

You need to find a place that regularly runs a Rookie class or sorts racers so people of the same ability are lumped together. If you are racing at a place that only has very experienced racers that's a problem.
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Old 01-20-2008, 09:06 AM   #197
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I do mind getting beat to death but at the same time i also enjoy cutting my times down and meeting awesome people. But i am also new, and only stating the obvious. Others that do enjoy the racing atmosphere and want to learn won't stick around unless you show them some slack or another person "IN THE SAME BOAT"

We had one indoor "awesome" track close and another "very-perfect-racer-built-track" open up. After racing at both i noticed the same small group of guys at the new track. History repeats itself.

My interest has not changed, money i have spent did not change, but guess what neither did the players. I took 21 months off due to owning company and my partner got into a car accident Hospitalized for 9 of those months and unable to return. As a result he couldn't work for this time so i did everything.

But what i am saying here is that when that question comes up do i go? or do i stay? without some type of common ground with your suroundings you will seek refuge somewhere else. Now if i had 3-5 guys still learning to race when my partner got into his accident i might have seeked support and friendship at the track rather than somewhere else.

My point through this lengthy story is this. When i left, 21 MONTHS Later the track closed and the same people were at the new track. YOU CANT TELL ME NO ONE ELSE IS INTEREST....That is B.S.

They came, they saw, some tried, others maybe harder than others, but still racing against the Foyte Family. Tracks are catering to the experienced racer and not the "want to become an experienced racer". Yes there is a difference between a basher and a guy that wants to learn.

Entertainment, yep that is what it is. Football is also entertainment, but you don't learn a damn thing playing the PATRIOTS (example) each week. You learn by playing pe-wee, middle school, high school, and then college, and guess what if you are lucky enough the NFL, and then if you are really lucky enough you get on the patriots.

Point again being no PEWEE, NO MIDDLE SCHOOL etc. therefore people quit........

Yes slower cars might help, but like all the posts state a new guy (including me) don't want the slow car and won't buy the slow car. But if they are put in a class where slower is actually faster then they will learn the truth. Instead of trying to make the car go faster. They would have the ability to learn that it is not really speed but experience.

SELLING the new guy is also an art. "Yep, this car is the same one you see there going fast." But hey every Weds and or Sunday (something like that) we have a biginners race for people just like yourself. JUST LIKE YOURSELF. JUST LIKE YOURSELF. And tell that to everyone that walks in the store!!!!!! Don't have anyone showing up? Get there Number at the point of sale, call them tell them you are starting a brand new class. Hell, "thanks for buying your car with us. Here is a coupon good for 3 or 5 races", they will feel like coming out and heck it is free. imagine getting a new guy to 5 races? isn't that the question here? In reality i think the hardest part is getting them to the second one............

Nobody buys a 2-400 dollar car and not plan on racing it, they buy it with intentions of racing untill that dreadfull first day. But if the industry could make that first day a little less dreadful, you might be onto something..... otherwise the car either gets beatup in the local parking lot or on e-bay

My 2 cents i'm sure is only worth 1/2 but hey that's what i see. And that is how i think most true new guys feel.
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Old 01-20-2008, 10:13 AM   #198
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At Seattle Indoor Raceway we have a series called Silver Can Saturday Nights. The seriers is based entirely on the Tamiya silver cans and no other motors are allowed. We run a spec geared TC class for the newer drivers, open TC for the more advanced, then we run Mini Coopers and the F103 1/10 scale pan cars. Again we only allow the silver can motor. This is by far our tracks most popular and competative race night. We more than double the turnout for any other race night. We have 8-10 kids racing and we have advanced drivers helping the newer ones instead of protecting their secrets. It's now a proven fact at our track that slower motors while not as cool speed wise, are the ticket to a much more diverse group of drivers and will draw in the kids that we need to make this a viable hobby in the future.
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:06 AM   #199
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Team crash, I agree with most of what you're saying, but a point that's being missed is that before you can race an rc car, you first have to learn how to drive an rc car. If people would take a few weeks and practice in front of their house, or in an empty parking lot, they would have much less trouble when they show up at the track.
I use a full scale analogy. Do you think someone who has never driven a real car before could jump in an F1 car and be competitive? Of course not. But every week new people show up at the rc track have never driven a car and expect to do well. And they're disapointed, hmmm, go figure...
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Old 01-20-2008, 12:08 PM   #200
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I also agree with you. But the question is how do we get them from "go cart" driver to "car" to "F1". Without loosing them???????? So they will continue to come back.

There and my ignorance will be the delima to overcome. Always has been and always will be. They are new and yes they do buy that car they (and i) can't drive yet (getting better though).

i'm relatively open minded however what you just said in layman terms is " hey stupid, what were you thinking? " and that translates to the new guy as yep your right i was stupid for spending this money and i will e-bay this thing right away and find another endevure. ='s NEW GUY, GONE.

By the time the new guy shows up he has already made a stupid descission, the question is do we let him fiqure it out, or do we compound the issue by telling him how stupid he or she is? or do we fiqure out a way to keep them???????????????????????

I know you don't want them racing with you, but at the same time you would like more racers around (Catch 22, what were you thinking, Man i wish there were more racers here on Sunday), but hay lets find and keep someone that will run with him. and 1-2 or 5 years down the road somebody is asking him questions. Hence a new racer is born.

Maybee it is just my local calaber of drivers, but after reading articles, and posts here i have found that all are questioning how to save rc. Can't tell you how many times it would be easier to just stop. Which is why i'm sharing my experiences with you before you loose me or the next new guy LOL.

Perfect example, Last sunday i raced in 3 heats and Main (Finished all races) big defeat for me. During the regular heats 4 cars in each race, the main 8 cars. 7 were all faster than me. My best 27 Laps Others finished with 30-34. Yep do the math. (7 cars)(Passed me 5-7 Times) that is 35 to 49 cars going around me. Pushing towards the higher number because most finished with 32 or more.

Imagine a 5 minute race head to head neck to neck with 35-49 Lead changes with the best drivers i bet they bump eventually. So i get out of the way for 34 to 48 of the passes, but quess what gets remembered. The one that didn't get by. Believe it or not it bothers the new driver (probably more because his state of mind is already negative) just as much as the experienced driver. The difference is the experienced driver says hey "maybee he won't show up next week" and the new guy starts thinking "maybee i shouldn't come next week"

Hense the cycle continues. That unsaid "wish that guy would just stay home" is hovering around the track and though it is not said it is very very much well stated and perfectly heard!!!!!
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Old 01-20-2008, 12:31 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Crash View Post
I also agree with you. But the question is how do we get them from "go cart" driver to "car" to "F1". Without loosing them???????? So they will continue to come back.
Don't start with an F1 car, start in a go kart instead. Translate that to RC and throw in a little NASCAR flavor (without snubbing your nose at the newbies or NASCAR) and do something like this:

Truck Series designed for newbies, race on Friday nights, just like the NASCAR truck series does. Electric stadium trucks, Tough as tanks Traxxas Rustlers recommended. Maybe the track even offers rentals. Stadium trucks on a road course can teach the newbies about racing without needing the "wall of equipment", etc.

Then have a "Bush League" (I know, now it's the Nationwide Series) for novice touring cars, and the usual touring cars with the walls of equipment and all.

Let the drivers know that you don't start your first race racing against Jeff gordon, you start with lesser equipment against lesser competition.


I think that's one of the things that is hurting RC, the belief that if you just spend enough money you'll be able to compete with the "fast guys".
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Old 01-20-2008, 12:49 PM   #202
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There are a lot of problems with our sport, but the biggest is that there is no new blood coming into the hobby. Perhaps we need to make it easier to get new young racers involved by coming out with transmitters that function like video game controlers. Certainly the hand-eye coordination of today's youth is probably better than it has ever been, given the popularity of video games. Think about it.
Also, it is very intimidating to show up at a track and see all the equipment "needed" to race. The attitudes of some drivers could also use a little work too. Personally, I find it ridiculous to watch 1/10 touring cars and 1/12 cars that don't look like anything I have ever seen race. We need to be running bodies people can relate to. Muscle cars, tuner cars, exotic cars, etc not Can Am cars from 1970 and German touring cars. What the hell? People want to race something they are familiar with, not some wedge that is good for 2 tenths a lap. Make our sport appeal to the masses, not just the racers.
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Old 01-20-2008, 12:52 PM   #203
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The future of RC racing will depend on the development & increased popularity of “Spec Class” racing programs that provide a level playing field and cost control.

There should be “Open” or “Unlimited” types of classes but without “Spec” programs, the growth of our sport will be limited.

I don’t race electric cars, but I am actively involved with the Kyosho Inferno GT “Spec” racing program. These “buggy” based cars can be purchased for $400 RTR and raced in the “Spec” class. Modifications are very limited and all cars must run the factory installed engine, header/pipe combo.

At our track, SS Raceway in Tampa Florida, we are experiencing excellent growth in racer attendance every weekend. The class is fast, fun & fair for all, we’re loving it!

Electric tracks could do something similar with an inexpensive RTR car too. Once the new racers gain ability & knowledge, they can choose to move towards more hi-end forms of racing.

Good luck to all.
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Old 01-20-2008, 01:52 PM   #204
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And again I harken back to the good old silver can. We run spec gears in our spec series and a spec tire. By slowing the cars down our newer drivers don't break so many parts. The top drivers don't want to go that slow so they don't run the class. New drivers learn and have a solid chance of doing well on race night. When the vetran pro drivers complain about having a silver can only night I tell them "this isn't about you, it's about bringing in new drivers." I then ask them to hang out and help the new guys so they'll stick with it. Guess what, it's working.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:23 PM   #205
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We have a similar problem too. At our club race, drivers are getting bored of running 27t stock, and want to move 19t. But one the drivers wanted to revert back to silver cans. Reason being to introduce new drivers. Sounds good, but we are gonna have a separate class for maybe 2 drivers? I don't think it's fun to run a "solo" race.

And that is the reason why we run the mini class using only mabuchi motors. Novices can get into RC with this class. We have racers that can beat a full 3racing option mini versus relatively bone stock one. Proves you don't have to have a $400 mini to win.

And the local hobby shops... Need to have a better selection of parts. You ever walk into a Japanese hobby shop, and they pretty much have everything you need unlike the ones you have here. Online shops thrive because of selection. Not because of the pricing. I am willing to dish out a little more at the LHS if the selection is there.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:24 PM   #206
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Let me predict the future of RC cars:

- Use lipo or better battery technology
- Use brushless motor, programable by rpm monitoring for modified & stock racing
- Still 4 wheels
- Spektrum radio technology
- Bluetooth connection to personal handphone on some receiver model
- telemetry download on some receiver model
- brushless servo
- longer run time
- very quick to build or rebuild
- front lights, brake lights, fuel / battery empty warning light.
- 7.4V is standard electricity to power servo, receiver, and motor.
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Old 01-20-2008, 03:05 PM   #207
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i think handycaps needs to be introduced into racing so new drivers get encouraged to race against more experianced drivers and still keep the will to drive. you could also have a mixed race were silver cans can drive along brushless and 27t an19t etc but also have a handy cap were the slower cars start with more points of time to get laps in etc
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Old 01-20-2008, 03:42 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Crash View Post
I also agree with you. But the question is how do we get them from "go cart" driver to "car" to "F1". Without loosing them???????? So they will continue to come back.

There and my ignorance will be the delima to overcome. Always has been and always will be. They are new and yes they do buy that car they (and i) can't drive yet (getting better though).

i'm relatively open minded however what you just said in layman terms is " hey stupid, what were you thinking? " and that translates to the new guy as yep your right i was stupid for spending this money and i will e-bay this thing right away and find another endevure. ='s NEW GUY, GONE.

By the time the new guy shows up he has already made a stupid descission, the question is do we let him fiqure it out, or do we compound the issue by telling him how stupid he or she is? or do we fiqure out a way to keep them???????????????????????

I know you don't want them racing with you, but at the same time you would like more racers around (Catch 22, what were you thinking, Man i wish there were more racers here on Sunday), but hay lets find and keep someone that will run with him. and 1-2 or 5 years down the road somebody is asking him questions. Hence a new racer is born.

Maybee it is just my local calaber of drivers, but after reading articles, and posts here i have found that all are questioning how to save rc. Can't tell you how many times it would be easier to just stop. Which is why i'm sharing my experiences with you before you loose me or the next new guy LOL.

Perfect example, Last sunday i raced in 3 heats and Main (Finished all races) big defeat for me. During the regular heats 4 cars in each race, the main 8 cars. 7 were all faster than me. My best 27 Laps Others finished with 30-34. Yep do the math. (7 cars)(Passed me 5-7 Times) that is 35 to 49 cars going around me. Pushing towards the higher number because most finished with 32 or more.

Imagine a 5 minute race head to head neck to neck with 35-49 Lead changes with the best drivers i bet they bump eventually. So i get out of the way for 34 to 48 of the passes, but quess what gets remembered. The one that didn't get by. Believe it or not it bothers the new driver (probably more because his state of mind is already negative) just as much as the experienced driver. The difference is the experienced driver says hey "maybee he won't show up next week" and the new guy starts thinking "maybee i shouldn't come next week"

Hense the cycle continues. That unsaid "wish that guy would just stay home" is hovering around the track and though it is not said it is very very much well stated and perfectly heard!!!!!

Been at that track........know the feeling. BUT..I gauge myself on my performance not being lapped a few dozen times. I am however looking forward to the summer series in Dayton...the sportsman class has the breakout rule....money and wall-o-gear means nothing....weekly there are RTR's, TT-05's, My Xray T1 and an OLD losi...all running close with a chance to win.....sure there are some really fast guys in the pro class...but they stay out of the sportsman class to not sandbag.....Try getting up there this summer....you'll like it
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:07 PM   #209
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So why is Tamiya GrandPrix in Japan so successful? What are we doing wrong in comparison?

Tamiya I think is the only company that holds a race of that magnitude. Lots of hobby stores here don't want to make their own track because of initial expense. (these ppl don't know that having your own track helps business in the long run...) Since there are no official tracks, some individual might start up their own at some parking lot. After a season ot two, the lot owner decides to increase rental rates. Then you also have your drama about who is faster, cheating, I wanna go slower/faster, blahblah, and the club level dies out...

It is a MAJOR flaw when the LHS does not support racing... something is wrong with that picture.
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Old 01-20-2008, 05:54 PM   #210
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Nice to see that others are still interested in this.

ROAR has just announced that they are changing their rules to allow brushless and LiPo. That is a step in the right direction. But, there is still a long way to go.

The first, and biggest, thing that needs to be done is to slow the cars down!!!

Sorry, I know that everybody that walks into the track or hobby shop wants the fasted most insane car they sell. But, they can't handle it and they will end up destroying their car and the cars of many other racers in the process. They can have the same car as the fast guys, but they need to have a class (Stock) to start in that has a reasonable speed. This class should offer a speed that allows them to master the basics of driving within just a few weeks, not the several months or years that the current speeds require.

Someone drew the parallel to NASCAR and F1. This is exactly the same. You don't take a 16 year old kid out for his first driving lesson in a 200+ MPH supercar. You put them in something that they can handle. They don't like it, they tell you they want the Corvette Z06, but they need to be in a Toyota Yaris for a while. We've all seen what happens when an inexperienced driver gets a fast car... usually their car is on the back of a tow truck in a very short while.

Our hobby has progressed at an absolutely amazing rate over the last few years. It's great that are cars are as capable as they are and that our motors provide incredible power, but it's coming at a cost. Too many people are afraid to upset those currently in the hobby. But, it's obvious that we can't keep this thing alive much longer, we need new blood. So, make the painful changes, upset some of the old-timers and move on. Once the new blood starts coming in, we'll forget about all those who said slowing things down will ruin the hobby.


There have been a few things happening in the hobby that are showing some promise. In oval, many tracks are running a breakout class. This class is very inexpensive to run and more fun than should be allowed. For onroad, the new vintage Trans-Am class is looking very promising. Slower cars that look great is a perfect way to get new people interested.
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