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Old 06-19-2007, 07:33 PM   #136
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...the 2 best days in a boat owner's life are the day he buys it and the day he sells it.......
Then you either have a piece of crap for a boat or you are not a true boater!!! But like all hobbies....some were never meant to be for all people. I have both r/c cars and real boats(yes I have 2) and enjoy them both. I race strictly 1/8 onroad after going through what others here are talking about. I know my place in this hobby and as long as you know that you can enjoy it.
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Old 06-19-2007, 11:28 PM   #137
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Another thing to mention is the ongoing cost of racing (even at the club level), not just the entry price. I didn't have many quams about the entry price, but I was going through Nimhs ever 3 or 4 months (especially IBs). At $50+ per 6 cell pack at 4 packs, that gets pretty spendy in a hurry Add in tires and replacement parts, and that alone can cause people to get out of racing. Some probably don't want to, but they have other interests and simply can't afford both.

Lipos and brushless motors can help this ongoing cost issue some (although ther's nothing wrong with brushed motors now with the longer lasting brushes and low wear designs...as long as you have access to a lathe, you're set.) , especially in the battery cost department.

I'm trying to get a lipo powered, stock motored 12th scale car sorted out so I can run in my club racing 19 turn class. After one race meeting it looks like with the proper gearing it should be competative without being overly quick for the class. The track I run on is pretty foam tire friendly and they have a truer onsite. The tires / wheels do cost a bit, but so do rubber TC tires (although the TC tires seem to last longer). I'm not a good driver, and I hit stuff a lot...the 12th scale holds up much better than my Evo V....I rarely have to buy replacement parts for the 12th scale.

So far my experience with TCs has been ho hum.... setting them up can be daunting at times (the 12th scale seems to have less ajustments...you just have to be a little more precise..) and they tend to break more. When they're set up right though, their a lot of fun to drive..

Getting the starting cost down is good, but keeping the ongoing costs of RC racing down can also be an important factor.......it is for me, anyways
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Old 06-20-2007, 07:36 AM   #138
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CMW, sorry my friend but I have to disagree with you.

Although the prices have stayed consistent over the years, what it costs to remain competitive has gone up considerably. That was inevitable with each increase in technology. So that can't be helped, and most of us don't mind. Well, I mind a little.

RC racing also goes through cycles, and many downturns are caused by forces outside the hobby. Right now things look like they're in flux, some things going up, some down.

Even in your post you say racing is grim, but the way I read it you don't want to change anything. You bring up an old point about how things are spread out right now, it's called the A, B, and C mains. That only works so far. If we want to get more people into racing, we need to change racing. The way things are now isn't working.

Wiper arms 20 years ago, and a charge cord? That's why everything was so cheap for you guys, you were running outdated tech even then!! The old novak NESC-4 speed control was the first ESC I had, and it was in my first 12thscale car, 21 years ago. The T-4, T-1, and T-1x's came later.

I was speaking to my experience in the On-Road scene 20 years ago. Most of the Off-Road guys still don't use Dynos, and half of them only have a Pulsar or an ICE, very few GFX's at dirt races in my area. The off-road club racers have always had less stuff than the on-road guys, because power is less of an issue for them.

Regardless of what you change, There's still gonna be A, B and C mains. Unless we adopt the "No Scorekeeping" philosophy, that prevents today's children from developing low self-esteem (what a complete joke). And if we do that, why not just drive around a parking lot?

I never said that we didn't need some change, what I said was slowing things down isn't the answer. New Blood isn't attracted by good close racing, it's attracted by SPEED. You slow the cars down and you've still got the same 20 guys at the track every week, but now they're just running slower cars. It does nothing to encourage new blood to enter the hobby, and the fast guys are still gonna trounce any new folks just as badly as they did when the cars were faster, so the discouragement factor for newbies is still there, but the allure of speed is now gone.

I feel our biggest concern is less about changing RACING, than it is about changing the PERCEPTION new folks get about racing. Ask a racer what he's got tied-up in his gear, and he immediately tries to justify his toy car obsession with astronomical amounts of money, and stories of the overwhelming complexity of toy racing cars. If you walk into a track and see 15 or 20 guys hunkered over their cars, twisting wrenches, spinning up motors, and bitching under their breath about equipment or other drivers, it's a turn-off to potential new racers.

But if you walked in and saw some of the guys helping out a kid with a car that's not set-up right, or you see some genuine excitement in an individual that wins a B-main, then maybe we could show people it's fun. Club programs have become too serious. We scare away far more individuals than we bring in, and it isn't just cost that frightens them. What parent wants to bring their kid to a facility with a bunch of bitching, whining, primadonnas? How about once or twice a month everybody shows up at the track, with a car, radio, ONE charger, a couple of packs, and just puts their stuff down and races, rather than treating every weekend like it's the CLUB RACING WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. Take a couple minutes between heats to go chat with your fellow racers, or answer some new person's question about the hobby.

I feel we really need to emphasize what we do have, before we go out and try to re-invent the wheel. This is a GREAT family hobby, My father and I have been doing it for 20 years, and my six-year old son is in the middle of his THIRD season of racing. My son doesn't piss and moan when he finishes 2nd or third from the bottom, and he knows it's not his equipment. But I can tell you that when he won his first C-main at our little club track, he was ecstatic for weeks, and nothing in this hobby has ever made me more proud. We need to point out the fact that there's room for everyone. We need to let everyone know that you can graduate up the ranks as your skills improve, and that there are plenty of people willing to help you learn how to get there. The R/C Racing Community needs to make fundamental changes in the way we address potential racers, and return our image to that of a family friendly HOBBY/Sport, rather than the Win At All Cost SPORT/Obsession we portray it as now.

I'm not even gonna start on the whole ZERO promotion outside our own ranks topic....
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Old 06-20-2007, 08:56 AM   #139
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CCW is right for the most part. But now add in a parent bringing their child to the race to find a bunch of men hunkered over their "toy cars" checking every aspect of their setup with $100 set up stations, soldering up a storm and using motor spray like it was compressed air. (Not to mention the traction compound); that makes the parent want to leave their child there? How about the locker room atmosphere at many tracks with cursing, adult topics (dates, women,) etc.

All of the talk about keeping costs controlled goes back to 1 thing- find a sturdy, cheap, and simple chassis and race it.

How about:
1) tamiya mini ($95)
2) ball bearings ($15)
3) a set of tires and rims ($25) (the mini will work with the stock tires)
4) a budget radio ($110)
5) a charger ($30- orion avionics)
6) cheap power supply (3.5 amp) ($25)
7) 3200 lipo pack ($75)
8) sport speedo ($60)

Total purchase- $400 for everything needed to race. (a little more than 1/2 of that at used prices)

The problem is that no one promotes this. Instead, we have 4wd exotic sedans that cost $400 without anything.

It is amazing that many of these points revolve around making the existing racers happier, whether through lower costs or a more level playing field.
The entire focus should be on bringing in new racers. Diehard racers would still race if we put 380 motors into our sedans and raced at 1/3 the speed we do now.
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Old 06-20-2007, 09:44 AM   #140
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Make the racing too slow and the pro's walk away, make it too fast and technical then the cost and complexity cuts in the newcomers run a mile.

It's no suprise the future of r/c is in decline... You can't please everyone.

Racing needs to be fun yes, but if there's no competition because you're two laps in front of everyone then why call it a race?

Surely my point is worthy of some thought to why r/c IS in decline?

Im not the fastest or the slowest racer around, but hell yeah, I race for the fun AND the competition!
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:22 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
CCW is right for the most part. But now add in a parent bringing their child to the race to find a bunch of men hunkered over their "toy cars" checking every aspect of their setup with $100 set up stations, soldering up a storm and using motor spray like it was compressed air. (Not to mention the traction compound); that makes the parent want to leave their child there? How about the locker room atmosphere at many tracks with cursing, adult topics (dates, women,) etc.

All of the talk about keeping costs controlled goes back to 1 thing- find a sturdy, cheap, and simple chassis and race it.

How about:
1) tamiya mini ($95)
2) ball bearings ($15)
3) a set of tires and rims ($25) (the mini will work with the stock tires)
4) a budget radio ($110)
5) a charger ($30- orion avionics)
6) cheap power supply (3.5 amp) ($25)
7) 3200 lipo pack ($75)
8) sport speedo ($60)

Total purchase- $400 for everything needed to race. (a little more than 1/2 of that at used prices)
Hell, I say drop the LIpo, get a Peak/Orion 2400 twin pack ($40) and a Dynamite MegaPeak ($40). That way you don't even need the power supply. So you save $35 on the battery, and the $25 from the power supply, plus the mini's come with a Tamiya ESC now so you can take that $60 off too. So now you're under $300.
We run mini's at our local club track. The ONLY mods you're allowed to make are bearings and electronics. Everybody is required to run a factory assembled stick pack. The Megatech 2400, and Orion/Peak 2400 packs are the most popular, and they work fine. The kid that wins the class every week is a pretty decent driver, and he wins with a bone stock RTR Cooper.
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Old 06-20-2007, 10:43 AM   #142
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No one that I see is stating the true problem. Video games!!!!!! You can race them on your schedule, you can go on line and run against people from all over, it's cheaper after you buy the actual system which most of us own anyway, and it's easier. If you wreck your car all you have to do is hit reset. I don't personally think it compares to RC, but my 13 year old has no desire to wrench on a car when he can just drive on a video game. It's a tough problem and I don't have the solution.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:05 PM   #143
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R/C is hurting becuase of Xbox and PC Games. New racers would rather play video games in side all day drinking redbull than being outside with nature and racing with friends. BAN XBOX!

^-- I just said the same thing as westerdude42 did, sry guys. He is right though.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:12 PM   #144
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R/C is hurting becuase of Xbox and PC Games. New racers would rather play video games in side all day drinking redbull than being outside with nature and racing with friends. BAN XBOX!

^-- I just said the same thing as westerdude42 did, sry guys. He is right though.
anyone wanna sign my petition to ban video consoles

I think my son and his buddies would bring back lynching
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:17 PM   #145
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Haha. Its so true about video games, my buddies friend just dropped $300 or so on a system and then turned around and bought 4-5 games, and im guessing they are what, $60 a pop new? Then I was trying to get him into rc, and he says 'RC cars are too expensive!' WOW!
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:17 PM   #146
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R/C is hurting becuase of Xbox and PC Games. New racers would rather play video games in side all day drinking redbull than being outside with nature and racing with friends. BAN XBOX!
LOL,

Instead of BANNING XBOX, how about 'requiring' XBOX be available at ALL Races...and have a couple games set up with their own competitions going on.

This would give the KIDS something to do during a LONG BORING Race day (Most kids have NO patience inbetween races), and an awful lot of them don't work on their own cars.

...heres an idea for an event -

XBOX 360 Grand Prix - A R/C Race set up in a temporary location (School Lot, Car Show, Car Dealership, Mall/Shopping area)

Have the track set up for the regular R/C Racers - but also have a couple EZ-UPS set up with the sides on them to block some of the outside lighting...and have 3-4 XBOX games set up inside and have somebody direct a 'racing competition' for those too. Use one to cross promote the other..(More people would probably come out to the XBOX competition, but they could be exposed to the R/C Competition. )

MAKE SURE THE R/C Competition puts on a great SHOW (Too often we don't race to promote...we race to dominate....and that can be BORING to watch)
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:20 PM   #147
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Actually, I wanted to get out of video games, and I loved playing racing video games, so naturally RC came next. I got into onroad, but soon found out that I couldn't afford to race 10th scale nitro, so moved to stadium truck. I love the change. No more sitting inside chatting with virtual fiends slowly getting bored. Just pack up my bag, chat with my friends at the track and do some real racing, no more simulated physics that one can figure out in a day.... I love getting the chance to clean my car after a hard day at work. I still play video games once in a while, but mainly when im looking to veg out only for 30 minutes.... I had to put a time limit on my video game addiction... Well, back to wrenching on my Losi 8!
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:21 PM   #148
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Very true Joe, at my local events everyone is to there self becuase they are too busy wrenching on there cars, or what not. There needs to be more to offer to the on lookers.

Xbox tents would not be the answer, I might just spend all my time in there playing, beating the kids at halo or racing!
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:36 PM   #149
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The above posts are right however, todays society (with no help from many parents) are wanting instant gratification. (exactly one reason I was addicted to video games, a factor that made me suffer in college. Hmm work on the paper and see a pay raise in 2 years, or play Halo right now and win a few rounds.) Sometimes I go to a club race (like last week) and have 3 DNFs and completely wonder why I do this! But I have to realize, its not about the racing anymore, its about the friendships. The racing is just a common ground.

Whenever visitors hit the track up, I make a point of talking to them, explaining the club rules and showing them the vehicles at the track. This hobby is great for kids also, as one will gain knowledge on how to troubleshoot and network.
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Old 06-20-2007, 01:14 PM   #150
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This sounds ridiculous! If a race day is LONG and BORING then it's not for your kid and don't bring him to the track. If you're trying to get your kids involved in RC and they don't like it don't force them into a quote on quote LONG and BORING day at the track. Just leave them at home with Mommy.

Most of the things that are happening to this hobby are out of our control. I do it because it is fun, challenging and I have developed great friendships. Nothing about a race day is LONG or BORING. If this is what has become for any of you then you're in the wrong hobby.


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Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
LOL,

Instead of BANNING XBOX, how about 'requiring' XBOX be available at ALL Races...and have a couple games set up with their own competitions going on.

This would give the KIDS something to do during a LONG BORING Race day (Most kids have NO patience inbetween races), and an awful lot of them don't work on their own cars.

...heres an idea for an event -

XBOX 360 Grand Prix - A R/C Race set up in a temporary location (School Lot, Car Show, Car Dealership, Mall/Shopping area)

Have the track set up for the regular R/C Racers - but also have a couple EZ-UPS set up with the sides on them to block some of the outside lighting...and have 3-4 XBOX games set up inside and have somebody direct a 'racing competition' for those too. Use one to cross promote the other..(More people would probably come out to the XBOX competition, but they could be exposed to the R/C Competition. )

MAKE SURE THE R/C Competition puts on a great SHOW (Too often we don't race to promote...we race to dominate....and that can be BORING to watch)
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