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Old 06-15-2007, 11:39 AM   #16
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IMHO 5 cell stock will doom 4wd Onroad. It eliminates the future (LIPO) and the simplicity that comes with BL and LIPO. While I can't claim to have the answers I can easily point out that our "Hobby" takes too much time to prep and most just want to show up and race. If we are to "grow" our numbers we need to make it easier for average joe to show up and thow his stuff down (not touched from the last race most likely) and race. LIPO and BL system will help accomplish this. The broad acceptance of 5 cell (stock and 19T) will eliminate LIPO and the ease that comes with it. Average Joe needs a break and 5 cell is not it.

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Old 06-15-2007, 11:57 AM   #17
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LOL, what?! 5 cells instead of LiPo? Do I have to trade in my iPhone for a pager, too? Whatever. It's too little, too late. Sorry it didn't work out.

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Old 06-15-2007, 12:19 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Advil View Post
IMHO 5 cell stock will doom 4wd Onroad. It eliminates the future (LIPO) and the simplicity that comes with BL and LIPO. While I can't claim to have the answers I can easily point out that our "Hobby" takes too much time to prep and most just want to show up and race. If we are to "grow" our numbers we need to make it easier for average joe to show up and thow his stuff down (not touched from the last race most likely) and race. LIPO and BL system will help accomplish this. The broad acceptance of 5 cell (stock and 19T) will eliminate LIPO and the ease that comes with it. Average Joe needs a break and 5 cell is not it.

FWIW

Art
I agree with this 100%. The experienced guys are usually the ones that resist change, but we need get new blood into the sport. Some of us like to work on our stuff all the time, but the new guys dont, and they need to still be fairly competitive if they didnt spend 10 hours during the week to spend 30 minutes on track.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Advil View Post
IMHO 5 cell stock will doom 4wd Onroad. It eliminates the future (LIPO) and the simplicity that comes with BL and LIPO. While I can't claim to have the answers I can easily point out that our "Hobby" takes too much time to prep and most just want to show up and race. If we are to "grow" our numbers we need to make it easier for average joe to show up and thow his stuff down (not touched from the last race most likely) and race. LIPO and BL system will help accomplish this. The broad acceptance of 5 cell (stock and 19T) will eliminate LIPO and the ease that comes with it. Average Joe needs a break and 5 cell is not it.

FWIW

Art
You said it much nicer than I. :-)

I've seen and talked to quite a few experienced guys, both in person and online that have gravitated toward the reduced maintenance brought about by BL and LiPo, so it's not just newcomers.

5 cell does not reduce the barrier of entry into R/C. LiPo does. So does brushless. Make it easier to get started and to maintain. And try to get racers to support a cheap starter class for their second class, like Mini's with LiPo and silvercan motors. If newcomers see a bunch of people racing the fun, slower cars, and they can get in on the action for cheap, it's a great way to get them started. Plus, I hear mini's are kinda fun. :-)
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:43 PM   #20
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Can you guys please take your lipo or nothing attitude to the lipo threads. This guy asked a question about 5 cell stock........and he got this crap.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:47 PM   #21
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Can you guys please take your lipo or nothing attitude to the lipo threads. This guy asked a question about 5 cell stock........and he got this crap.
Nope.
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Old 06-15-2007, 12:55 PM   #22
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Nope.
The LiPo nutjobs won't be happy until they hijack every thread and turn it into a forum for their cause.

What's going to be great is when the day comes and everyone is using them, but people will still be spending the same (or more) money and going through the same crazy matching & conditioning processes as now.

When there's competition involved, people will try ANYTHING they can to get an edge. Costs will continue to be high. Changing the power source is not going to eliminate that.

Look at brushless...people said "you won't need comm lathes" and "you only need one motor". Now comes along Zubak with a $300 meter for measuring the magnetic strength of sintered rotors. Now every competitive racer is going to have meter and a pile of rotors. Yay. Same money spent, just in a different way.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:07 PM   #23
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funny, i bought a used 5.5 a year and a half ago.. bonded.. and still run it just fine. infact it's more than i can put down on the local track... i wonder how many "team yahoo" brushed motors i'd have gone through in that time at $36 each + brushes.. most of that stuff is negated in open mod..
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:09 PM   #24
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Is 5 cell Stock and 19t run in Europe and Asia? I am just wondering, to me it seems like US races, run with US rules, are now bending or changing their rules based on who is showing up to a race (purley an observation, I am most likley wrong and will be told so). As for the "Newcomers", I am very new to organized racing, and electirc cars, but alot of the fun for me comes in building the motors, chassis, etc.. but I also had to do ALOT of reasearch into how and what make a brushed motor work, and how to build and maintain one. Sure BL is appealing, its less maintenance, cheaper to run, and from what I can tell a "spec" motor, but I am sure in the near future people will have a way "cheat" the system, and it will be just as hard for a newcomer to be competitive.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:14 PM   #25
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The LiPo nutjobs won't be happy until they hijack every thread and turn it into a forum for their cause.
I only bring it up where it's relevant. The fate of 5 cell and LiPo are too deeply intertwined to mention one without the other. 5 cell is a band-aid for a larger issue, and not even a good one. It will only further exacerbate the existing problem with racing being hard to enter for newcomers. People are taking drastic measures to get clubs to allow the use of LiPo. How many guys are begging to run 5 cell with lighter weight rules?

5 cell also completely eliminates brushed motors in mod, and forces people to use brushless. In mod, at least, it's always been about choice, and this eliminates one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ass Toot View Post
Look at brushless...people said "you won't need comm lathes" and "you only need one motor". Now comes along Zubak with a $300 meter for measuring the magnetic strength of sintered rotors. Now every competitive racer is going to have meter and a pile of rotors. Yay. Same money spent, just in a different way.
There will always be differences between equipment that people will try to exploit to gain an edge. Whether it be brushless, LiPo, or whatever. All we can hope for, is to reduce the effectiveness of these differences to the point where they don't matter enough to bother with. It remains to be seen how much it really matters with sintered rotors. All indications are that's it's not enough to bother with, especially for club racing.
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Old 06-15-2007, 01:16 PM   #26
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This is funny reading.. Still watching for a 5 cell post?? Lipos are wonderful, but 5 cell lipo?
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Old 06-15-2007, 02:17 PM   #27
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What the hell !!!


I`m on topic !
please stay on it Ritchie (Skypilot)


I would think if you are going though all the trouble of creating another stock class you would be interested in making sure it has a future...


Not trying to turn this into another thread , just interested in commenting on basing it on technology that is not going to be around is not so wise....


hopefully even convincing a few.....

That by basing a "new" class on tech used by the "new" customers will be most constructive for the sport .
i believe this thread was started with fred asking a question, a question you went no where near to answer. and for someone so concerned about future, i'd think you spend a little less time giving so many people so much crap about what class the run in and chasing them away from YOUR local track.
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:44 PM   #28
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Thanks, to the 5 people that actually responded to the original question.

To the rest:
Try reading the thread header.

This is about the ROAR Onroad Nats, Governed by ROAR rules, a handout 27t motor and ROAR approved battery.

There is NO brushless stock motor or lipo battery for this race.

and YES, I will be attending this race.
Fred
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:48 PM   #29
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In the Netherlands we are racing 5 cell for both. The stock and the mod. For mod it's a good thing because with 6 cell's the problems are to big at the big circuits we have here in the Netherlands. For stock it's also not bad. First I really don't like it and I was one off the biggest fighter for a 6 cell stock class this year. But after 2 nationals and a couple off clubraces the laptimes are the same as 2 years ago with the 3700's. Out off a corner it feel a little more dead(isn't it a stock class?), it's now all about corner speed. So, even on the biggest track's(when we in the Netherlands are talking about a big circuit then it's not normal big. gear ratio 3,6 is normal en 3,3 is possible) it's fun to drive the 19 turn with 5 cell's. Even some sponsored mod drivers are playing around with the stock sometimes to have fun. And we have fun
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Old 06-15-2007, 03:54 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by C_O_jones View Post
Thanks, to the 5 people that actually responded to the original question.

To the rest:
Try reading the thread header.

This is about the ROAR Onroad Nats, Governed by ROAR rules, a handout 27t motor and ROAR approved battery.

There is NO brushless stock motor or lipo battery for this race.

and YES, I will be attending this race.
Fred

Last winter we had a class for 6 cell 27 turn en 5 cell 19 turn. After 2 races the 5 cell 19 turn was a little bit faster at a technical indoor carpet circuit. I have also seen some testing with 5 cell 27 turn. It's realy a lot slower in laptimes, but when everyone has the same speed it could be nice also.
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