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Old 06-12-2007, 01:46 PM   #16
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I think there was someone at the Cleveland indoor champs this year that had their car run backwards after they crashed and the car sprung back and they were using a non sensored motor. I know that most of the Pro-drivers are not going to have any of these issue most times but what about the average driver that crashes more then 2 times a run? Is this a problem with sensorless motors that people should look out for? You know like use them but wait until the car comes to a complete stop before you re-apply the gas? Has anyone that used sensorless motors had this happen to them? Kufman??? I know you used or use sensorless motors can this happen?
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Old 06-12-2007, 01:50 PM   #17
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I think there was someone at the Cleveland indoor champs this year that had their car run backwards after they crashed and the car sprung back and they were using a non sensored motor. I know that most of the Pro-drivers are not going to have any of these issue most times but what about the average driver that crashes more then 2 times a run? Is this a problem with sensorless motors that people should look out for? You know like use them but wait until the car comes to a complete stop before you re-apply the gas? Has anyone that used sensorless motors had this happen to them? Kufman??? I know you used or use sensorless motors can this happen?
John Stranahan has documented this behavior in his Pantoura thread using the CC ESC with a Novak motor, as well as with their own motors. I don't think it continued to run in reverse, though. I definitely don't have warm, fuzzy feelings about sensorless motors from what I've read. Surely some of it can be overcome with software? I'm a fan of the sensored motors for sure, but if I didn't have to deal with the harness wires and could get the same performance, clearly that would be preferred.
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:08 PM   #18
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I had an issue with the castle creations mamba max and both a 5700kv and 7700kv motor where if I was rolling backwards or stopped due to a wreck or whatever, the thing would cog backwards for a bit, stop a brief moment, then continue on forward with uncontrollable power. Needless to say that problem was very frustrating and I switched back to Novak sensored brushless.
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:09 PM   #19
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It looks like a rebadged Novak. Can you tell us what makes it different?

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Old 06-12-2007, 02:22 PM   #20
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Linger,
No its never to late to change stuff. We will take that into consideration.

Syndrome, yes these motors are developed by Hacker Brushless motors. www.hacker-motor.com

As far as sensored and sensorless goes, I have used both multipule times.

Sensored is definatly the way to go if you wreck more then once.
With sensorless ,when at low speeds the esc pulses the motor trying to figure out where the rotor is making the car very hard to drive.
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:22 PM   #21
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It looks like a rebadged Novak. Can you tell us what makes it different?

Snowy.
A first generation Novak, at that. Maybe that's where Novak sold off all the old parts after they updated their motor line? :-D
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:24 PM   #22
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Linger,
No its never to late to change stuff. We will take that into consideration.

Syndrome, yes these motors are developed by Hacker Brushless motors. www.hacker-motor.com

As far as sensored and sensorless goes, I have used both multipule times.

Sensored is definatly the way to go if you wreck more then once.
With sensorless ,when at low speeds the esc pulses the motor trying to figure out where the rotor is making the car very hard to drive.
Thanks for the update, Kyle.

You said "etc.." about the motor winds. Does that mean they'll only do "mod" motors, or will we see them venture into the 10.5 and 13.5 territory? Are the rotors sintered?
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:24 PM   #23
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Don’t you want your motor sensored for racing applications? The way I understand is that if your motor is not sensored and you spin your car out or crash and bounce off a wall so its moving backwards and then you get on the throttle it will continue to go in "reverse" because there is no sensor to tell it which way to go. I've seen this from time to time with Micro cars when they crash if the driver gets on the gas too quickly it will continue to run backwards. Do all non sensored motors do this? If they do then I can see why some racing bodies want sensored motors and why Hacker is now selling motors with sensor cables
I think it doesn´t has to do with the motor but with the ESC. Some sensorless ESC are showing strange behaviour on certain conditions and some not. You can´t compare a CC or something similar to a GM.
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:43 PM   #24
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A first generation Novak, at that. Maybe that's where Novak sold off all the old parts after they updated their motor line? :-D
We did nothing of the sort..

Yes, we will be releasing the "Mod" motors first. There will be a 10T and 13T as well.

The rotors are sintered or course.

There are many things that make this motor different. Different materials as well as the knowlege and experience of Rainer Hacker.
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:45 PM   #25
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A first generation Novak, at that. Maybe that's where Novak sold off all the old parts after they updated their motor line? :-D

Nope, not Novak's.

We got rid of those annoying holes in the solder tabs. (Technology marches on....)

Wonder if Hacker plans to apply for ROAR approval.
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:46 PM   #26
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We did nothing of the sort..

Yes, we will be releasing the "Mod" motors first. There will be a 10T and 13T as well.

The rotors are sintered or course.

There are many things that make this motor different. Different materials as well as the knowlege and experience of Rainer Hacker.
Very cool, man, I can't wait to try one. Sorry for the dig, there, it was my feeble attempt at humor. It's good to see another legitimate player in the brushless market, and not another clone with their re-badged Chinese knock-offs.
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Old 06-12-2007, 02:58 PM   #27
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I have to admit, in looking at the photos...and comparing them w/ my 'original' Novak's with the annoying solder holes...I thought the same thing.

I just don't understand I guess... I've seen 3 or 4 NEW B/L motors recently..yet they all have the 'old school' look...so as a consumer..you have to know (especially with already shown B/L history) as soon as you get one....the NEW one will be right behind it...LOL

I've been kinda waiting to see HACKER get into this market...I remember a couple of the AZ guys doing some work with them several years back.
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Old 06-12-2007, 03:01 PM   #28
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Don’t you want your motor sensored for racing applications? The way I understand is that if your motor is not sensored and you spin your car out or crash and bounce off a wall so its moving backwards and then you get on the throttle it will continue to go in "reverse" because there is no sensor to tell it which way to go. I've seen this from time to time with Micro cars when they crash if the driver gets on the gas too quickly it will continue to run backwards. Do all non sensored motors do this? If they do then I can see why some racing bodies want sensored motors and why Hacker is now selling motors with sensor cables
I only had this problem with my first sensorless controller (which was made by Jeti). My schulze can be rolling backwards and still startup in the forward direction.

The ruling bodies don't require sensored motors. They require the motors to be wye wound with certain internal dimensions where the older hacker motors are delta wound with the wrong internal dimensions. Novak explained to me that the reasons for making many of the rules was to make the brushless motors close to the brushed motors. Kind of funny since brushed motors are delta wound.
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Old 06-12-2007, 03:08 PM   #29
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I forgot to mention, this startup problem is more defined when using ROAR motors since they are not designed to work well with a sensorless controller. The motor design rules do not lend themselves to the use of a sensorless system.

Besides which, if you are crashing hard enough to stop your car more than once per run, you are not going to win anyway.
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Old 06-12-2007, 03:25 PM   #30
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Novak explained to me that the reasons for making many of the rules was to make the brushless motors close to the brushed motors. Kind of funny since brushed motors are delta wound.
The original sensored motors were designed to mimic the "feel" and operation of brush motors. Novak felt that this would allow a more seamless transition from brush to brushless technology.

Sensorless had too many problems with low-speed driveability and hesitation to be accepted in a racing environment.
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