R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-08-2007, 03:19 PM   #31
Tech Champion
 
F. Mendoza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,232
Trader Rating: 79 (100%+)
Default

Seems this thread has more info than originally thought. Good call "andsetinn". I'm glad you opened up this can of worms.
__________________
RC America - Xray - Hudy - Gravity RC - KO Propo - Super Rad Graphics

Mr. Shookie goes home 10-06-08. Bill Levinson 4-14-15
F. Mendoza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2007, 08:23 PM   #32
Tech Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Iceland
Posts: 588
Default

Originally my thoughts were more on taking old brushless motor and rewind it, making high turn motors for rock crawling, low turn motors for testing or motors that would be good for monster trucks rather than cheating in some stock classes. Or if you want to race in 13.5 turn class, rewind some old motor so it is 13.5 turns. I didn't think everyone would suddenly become cheater if they realized this is possible. I now start to wonder what manufacturers are doing so their motors are easily identified.
andsetinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2007, 09:22 PM   #33
Tech Elite
 
PitCrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle Indoor Raceway
Posts: 2,129
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBird-sr View Post
True, you don't need to worry about rotational balance but more importantly you have to worry about phase balance. If one phase generates more of a magnetic field than the others, the motor will not run smoothly. Unless you want to risk blowing your ESC don't even try.
If this was a problem, wouldn't regular brushed motors have this problem too? Especially machine wound motors like stock and 19t motors....? I see stock motors that look WAY different on each pole (winding pattern) but they still perform just fine.

I highly doubt the brushless motor would be much different. One pole producing more or less magnetic field isn't going to deter much of the performance of the motor, and certainly shouldn't hurt the speedo.
PitCrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2007, 09:32 AM   #34
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PitCrew View Post
If this was a problem, wouldn't regular brushed motors have this problem too? Especially machine wound motors like stock and 19t motors....? I see stock motors that look WAY different on each pole (winding pattern) but they still perform just fine.

I highly doubt the brushless motor would be much different. One pole producing more or less magnetic field isn't going to deter much of the performance of the motor, and certainly shouldn't hurt the speedo.
Regular brushed motors have had this problem - from those that are genuine errors, to a motor we do not allow in Europe because it does not meet the Stock Rules. We still 'unwind' motors from time to time to check that they meet the Rules.

It is very difficult to wind and balance a brushed armature. You need specialist equipment, and a fair degree of skill, to balance an armature without destroying the stack's flux distribution. One pole producing more or less than the others upsets the balance of the motor, and is not a good thing.

Rewinding a brushless motor requires a bit of knowledge one can acquire, a little skill with one's hands, and a bit of practice. No specialist equipment is needed. Under the present suggestion for checking a brushless, one checks the inductance of the coils. Say the number required (the limit) on the inductance is 50, and your Stock brushless reads 55. You can now rewind it until it reaches 50, and you will have an advantage.

IIRC, when we did this with 12T motors, the limit was 14 on the meter. Many motors went to 18 or 20. There was nothing you could do about it because you couldn't easily balance a rewound armature. Now, however, you can buy the wire and rewind your brushless until it reaches the number required.

I am sure that not many people will try this, but how are you going to feel at the big race when you are beaten by someone who has? At the Euros, the speed and acceleration of the hand-wound brushless was noted by a lot of people - since it was Mod, no one worried. And, since 12th is about the driver, the best driver still won!!
SlowerOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2007, 09:48 AM   #35
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
Regular brushed motors have had this problem - from those that are genuine errors, to a motor we do not allow in Europe because it does not meet the Stock Rules. We still 'unwind' motors from time to time to check that they meet the Rules.

It is very difficult to wind and balance a brushed armature. You need specialist equipment, and a fair degree of skill, to balance an armature without destroying the stack's flux distribution. One pole producing more or less than the others upsets the balance of the motor, and is not a good thing.

Rewinding a brushless motor requires a bit of knowledge one can acquire, a little skill with one's hands, and a bit of practice. No specialist equipment is needed. Under the present suggestion for checking a brushless, one checks the inductance of the coils. Say the number required (the limit) on the inductance is 50, and your Stock brushless reads 55. You can now rewind it until it reaches 50, and you will have an advantage.

IIRC, when we did this with 12T motors, the limit was 14 on the meter. Many motors went to 18 or 20. There was nothing you could do about it because you couldn't easily balance a rewound armature. Now, however, you can buy the wire and rewind your brushless until it reaches the number required.

I am sure that not many people will try this, but how are you going to feel at the big race when you are beaten by someone who has? At the Euros, the speed and acceleration of the hand-wound brushless was noted by a lot of people - since it was Mod, no one worried. And, since 12th is about the driver, the best driver still won!!

I would learn to hand wind my brushless motor cept , My Lrp X-11 is already hand wound from the factory !!!
Also no reason the maufacture could`nt produce a 13.5 hand wound either ...


So how can hand winding one yourself become a advantage ?
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry

Last edited by Wild Cherry; 06-10-2007 at 10:28 AM.
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2007, 10:33 AM   #36
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
I would learn to hand wind my brushless motor cept , My Lrp X-11 is already hand wound from the factory !!!
Also no reason the maufacture could`nt produce a 13.5 hand wound either ...


So how can hand winding one yourself become a advantage ?
All Novak motors are hand-wound, including the 13.5T---both SS Pros and EXs.
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2007, 10:42 AM   #37
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Thought so , just was`nt sure ...
Thanks ....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2007, 01:42 PM   #38
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
I would learn to hand wind my brushless motor cept , My Lrp X-11 is already hand wound from the factory !!!
Also no reason the maufacture could`nt produce a 13.5 hand wound either ...


So how can hand winding one yourself become a advantage ?
As stated above, you can make sure that you have EXACTLY the minimum inductance allowed, so giving the highest possible performance.

This is a guess, but it maybe that the wire used, and the amount of wire, would also affect performance. We do this in brushed with singles, doubles, triples, etc., so would that have an effect in brushless? I don't know, but it is possible in theory.

There is so much about brushless we don't know yet, and it will be very interesting to see what happens with the Mod guys. However, until we know, they remain a problem in Stock to find equivalents, and keep them there.
SlowerOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2007, 08:09 PM   #39
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Well if you think you can wind one better than the factory, all the power to yeah .....


I have doubts that rewinding a brushless will yield any extra power like twisting a com or other way`s they "tune" a brush motor ...
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2007, 11:09 PM   #40
Tech Elite
 
flameoutgarrett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Srcr Seattle, Wa
Posts: 3,642
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to flameoutgarrett
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry View Post
Well if you think you can wind one better than the factory, all the power to yeah .....


I have doubts that rewinding a brushless will yield any extra power like twisting a com or other way`s they "tune" a brush motor ...
george, they may be "handwound" but its just like i wind a 60t crawler motor..lol

its handwound but its not uniform, you could rewind the brushless and get less wire....and have the same power from each pole...this is key...making all the poles have the exact same lenth of wire...all this adds up to more power!
__________________
Team fun-Www.rc-trim.com-Team Speedmerchant-Team Orca-Team Br00d
flameoutgarrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2011, 11:31 PM   #41
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2
Default

there seems to be alot of confusion with this subject..
yes i have been rewinding ac brushless motors for many years, until 2 years ago when my hv-pro died. its actually very easy if you have the patience to do it.
yes you should use some specialty tools for some of the motors but i have noticed that these smaller motors have alot of room for error, and they still work (within specs)
impedance meters will work. but i noticed that with all the ones i have done just pull the wires, sauder and cut . they are so close in coil resistance it wont matter and besides if they are out a bit its almost impossible to adjust without completely rewinding the motor anyways .
i have never had an issue with fixing them myself.

just make sure to use a hi quality hi heat wire, and always protect the wire when feeding it thru from scratches or rubbing on the core. (enamel coatings will scratch off and ruin a winding)
just copy what the original windings were in length and guage and you will be ok.

and as always check that the newly installed windings are not shorting out on the core.
(this is when you need to check your resistance )

later.
tracar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 07:15 AM   #42
Tech Fanatic
 
ozzy-crawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Forde A.C.T
Posts: 990
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default

you do realise the last post before yours was 4 years ago
__________________
MST XXXD vip
MST FS-01d
Xray T4
Xray T3
AE Sc10.2 AE SCB
ozzy-crawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 09:49 AM   #43
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2
Default

yes i do know. thanks for the reply .
tracar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 11:33 PM   #44
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 20
Default

I think rewinding a BL motor is a great idea. I know in rock crawling, the differance between a cheap machine wound, and a hand wound 35T brushed motor is night and day. So if your BL motor is wound all sloppy, and you put it into a pattern using the thickest wire for the given turn. It just has to work better, faster, with more torque and speed.

I cant say I have been on any other forum that has members so quick to bash or call someone a cheater for having independant thought as this one right here.

Quit being whinners. If someone out runs you. Then drive better, get more practice. Read about your radio, and ESC settings. Tune the suspension on your car. Stop getting out of the way of the fast car on the track just because they whine and make the faster car have to work more to get around you.

Later KB.

P.S. 4 years ago, and still a interesting thread.
KBorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 12:50 PM   #45
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 1
Default In runner or out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull View Post
Man, what are these people who are starting these ridiculous new brushless threads smoking? The winds are in the can and unless you are Edward Scissorhands, I doubt you can rewind it. Why would you want to?
They're smoking that medical grade marijuana at least I am and I'm not sure if he needs the inventor or the OutRunner if it isn't in runner you're right is weed must be better than mine because I would never attempt to rewind and inrunner motor Maybe but an OutRunner motor no problem I can find them in my sleep help my 4 year old son can win them just kidding but he's getting really close
Dhice1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted : Novak 4300 brushless motor and a 13.5 motor lbckevin R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 6 09-18-2008 04:51 PM
How do I rewind the coil/spring in pull start? zippitydodah Rookie Zone 9 06-13-2008 05:26 AM
FS/FT NIB LRP 5.5T Brushless motor/ Castle CM-2080 motor Trade for Newer FUTABA S9451 ffpm46 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 13 03-31-2008 02:17 PM
NOVAK GTB BRUSHLESS RACING ESC 2.4GHZ + 13.5 BRUSHLESS MOTOR meronr R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 12 01-29-2008 02:18 PM
Reedsburg Rewind Jammin-1 Wisconsin & Illinois Racing 43 09-07-2007 07:44 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 08:27 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net