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Old 11-18-2007, 10:06 PM   #136
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sweet deal, one thing i have learned doing the heli thing, just like every other product price doesn't equal quality, but you can't put a price on quality. i've had lipos "puff" just sitting in the trunk of my car. (it was a little hot that day lol)

do you remember which balancer he used?
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:37 AM   #137
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Skiddins,

I'll have my graphical data back when a new battery comes in for my laptop, but here is the overall testing results:

The CORE pack maintains higher voltage under the full range of loads (5 to 100A) than the Orion 4800 pack. The disparity increases as the load increases as you'd expect to see when you're comparing a 15C pack to a 20+C pack. Both I as the CORE distributor, and Orion via Kokam tell you to expect hundreds and hundreds of consistent cycles with proper use.

The Trakpower pack however warns to expect only "100 raceworthy cycles". That's concerning to me, as it suggests that the cycle life of the pack has been compromised in order to gain discharge performance. I've seen that in the airplane world as well.

"big picture point":
Lipos are (or should be) capable of 300, 400, 500, or more cycles before they start showing any degredation in performance. Especially in racing (not bashing at 60mph+ in a parking lot) we're not asking any more from most Lipo packs that they can comfortably deliver for hundreds of consistent cycles. Using the CORE pack as an example - even the most gnarly mod setup won't heat it up more than 5-10degF above ambient in a 5 min race. The pack is capable of MUCH more than that, thus it's cycle lifespan is going to be very consistent and long. The reason NiMH packs just don't last, is we're actually using them right up to (or beyond) their absolute capabilities every single race. There is a natural degredation in performance there as a result.

As far as C ratings go - beware where they're coming from. I could spout all day here that the CORE pack is 35C. Not very many folks have 175 amp discharging equipment to prove me right or wrong so it's my word against the world while I sit back and sell lots of packs! C ratings are simply a selling point, so look at them the same way you do any other marketing materials - with scepticism until you see it for yourself. Personally, I just prefer to be honest about the capabilities I've personally tested, and let my packs speak and perform for themselves.
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Old 11-19-2007, 03:21 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Shawn Palmer View Post
Skiddins,

I'll have my graphical data back when a new battery comes in for my laptop, but here is the overall testing results:

The CORE pack maintains higher voltage under the full range of loads (5 to 100A) than the Orion 4800 pack. The disparity increases as the load increases as you'd expect to see when you're comparing a 15C pack to a 20+C pack. Both I as the CORE distributor, and Orion via Kokam tell you to expect hundreds and hundreds of consistent cycles with proper use.

The Trakpower pack however warns to expect only "100 raceworthy cycles". That's concerning to me, as it suggests that the cycle life of the pack has been compromised in order to gain discharge performance. I've seen that in the airplane world as well.

"big picture point":
Lipos are (or should be) capable of 300, 400, 500, or more cycles before they start showing any degredation in performance. Especially in racing (not bashing at 60mph+ in a parking lot) we're not asking any more from most Lipo packs that they can comfortably deliver for hundreds of consistent cycles. Using the CORE pack as an example - even the most gnarly mod setup won't heat it up more than 5-10degF above ambient in a 5 min race. The pack is capable of MUCH more than that, thus it's cycle lifespan is going to be very consistent and long. The reason NiMH packs just don't last, is we're actually using them right up to (or beyond) their absolute capabilities every single race. There is a natural degredation in performance there as a result.

As far as C ratings go - beware where they're coming from. I could spout all day here that the CORE pack is 35C. Not very many folks have 175 amp discharging equipment to prove me right or wrong so it's my word against the world while I sit back and sell lots of packs! C ratings are simply a selling point, so look at them the same way you do any other marketing materials - with scepticism until you see it for yourself. Personally, I just prefer to be honest about the capabilities I've personally tested, and let my packs speak and perform for themselves.

Thanks for the info, very interesting about the Trakpower's.

Have you tried any discharge testing with them against the Core's, like you have with the Orions.

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Old 11-19-2007, 03:34 PM   #139
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CORE vs Trakpower was going to happen just before I lost my laptop battery (ironically also a lipo LOL). Back-to-back running was a little too close to call, so I'll have to defer to the #'s on that one when I have them.

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Old 11-19-2007, 04:47 PM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Palmer View Post
Skiddins,

I'll have my graphical data back when a new battery comes in for my laptop, but here is the overall testing results:

The CORE pack maintains higher voltage under the full range of loads (5 to 100A) than the Orion 4800 pack. The disparity increases as the load increases as you'd expect to see when you're comparing a 15C pack to a 20+C pack. Both I as the CORE distributor, and Orion via Kokam tell you to expect hundreds and hundreds of consistent cycles with proper use.

The Trakpower pack however warns to expect only "100 raceworthy cycles". That's concerning to me, as it suggests that the cycle life of the pack has been compromised in order to gain discharge performance. I've seen that in the airplane world as well.

"big picture point":
Lipos are (or should be) capable of 300, 400, 500, or more cycles before they start showing any degredation in performance. Especially in racing (not bashing at 60mph+ in a parking lot) we're not asking any more from most Lipo packs that they can comfortably deliver for hundreds of consistent cycles. Using the CORE pack as an example - even the most gnarly mod setup won't heat it up more than 5-10degF above ambient in a 5 min race. The pack is capable of MUCH more than that, thus it's cycle lifespan is going to be very consistent and long. The reason NiMH packs just don't last, is we're actually using them right up to (or beyond) their absolute capabilities every single race. There is a natural degredation in performance there as a result.

As far as C ratings go - beware where they're coming from. I could spout all day here that the CORE pack is 35C. Not very many folks have 175 amp discharging equipment to prove me right or wrong so it's my word against the world while I sit back and sell lots of packs! C ratings are simply a selling point, so look at them the same way you do any other marketing materials - with scepticism until you see it for yourself. Personally, I just prefer to be honest about the capabilities I've personally tested, and let my packs speak and perform for themselves.
Awesome info. I will say Joe at Castle likes the new Core pack. He said you where 100% correct on the performance. Talked with him today and said the CORE lipo just plain rips vs some other lipos he is messing with.
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Old 11-20-2007, 05:20 AM   #141
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I hope the 1st one is what I need.......
Anyone ever figure out the correct balance tap plug for the CORE pack?
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Old 11-20-2007, 06:17 AM   #142
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JST EH type

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Anyone ever figure out the correct balance tap plug for the CORE pack?
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Old 11-21-2007, 07:31 AM   #143
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Currently I own two Orion Carbon 3200 packs that I run in my T2R. No question in my mind that if it were not for BL/LiPo, I would not be back running electrics. I have never had a problem with these batteries or my Scorpion charger, so I am definitely hooked on this technology.

Now, that being said; I just purchased a Core pack to use in my T4 with a Novak 13.5SS Pro motor. I considered several different packs before making this purchase and the excellent information provided by Shawn and Adrian were definitely a deciding factor.

Shawn provided great technical information on the technology and the Core packs. Adrian was very courteous; even suggesting a couple of competitive packs for one person because that person wasn't necessarily sold on the Core product, but Adrian wanted to ensure that if that person didn't buy the Core product, that he at least get a product with good quality and safety.

IMO, you couldn't ask for much more...

Is the big brown truck here yet with my Core LiPo?
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Old 11-21-2007, 10:58 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Shawn Palmer View Post
CORE vs Trakpower was going to happen just before I lost my laptop battery (ironically also a lipo LOL). Back-to-back running was a little too close to call, so I'll have to defer to the #'s on that one when I have them.

Shawn
BS alert!! I call bunk on Palmer!!! We all know he could rig up a lipo for his laptop if it was really toast. ha ha ha j/k

Shawn, the Core lipos sound awesome. Did you steal the new 30c cells from Kokam to make them?

I could use a new killer pack for my 90mph Losi XX buggy... might be calling you.
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Old 11-21-2007, 11:30 AM   #145
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LOL

Actually, I TRIED really hard to rig a 3s pack, but it didn't work. There is a circuit board inside the stock pack that makes about 7 connections into the machine, and I couldn't find the magic formula for a direct plug-in.

I've got too much data on the machine to go rooting around inside it for a hard-wire of 3s power, so I broke down and ordered a new pack instead.

No comment on 30C cell theft

I got what you need for a 90mph XX. The Core has had my Mi3 to the high 80's with no sweat at all.
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Old 11-21-2007, 11:33 AM   #146
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BS alert!! I call bunk on Palmer!!! We all know he could rig up a lipo for his laptop if it was really toast. ha ha ha j/k
I didn't want to say anything, but pretty much all laptops come with a power supply too... and you usually do not need the battery installed to use it
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:25 PM   #147
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I got this from FMA in regards to me asking about the Core balance tap and using a CellPro 4s

"Their node connector does not fit our adapters. This is kind of funny because I just had a walk-in customer last week with this same pack. I cut and spliced a CPBP7 to it to make it compatible with his Cellpro charger. Works great!"
I traded several E-mails with Howard Matos (FMA Technical Support). He was very helpful for what I needed. I have the Scorpion Charger from FMA.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:29 PM   #148
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Not very many folks have 175 amp discharging equipment to prove me right or wrong so it's my word against the world while I sit back and sell lots of packs!
Bah, that's nothing. If you want to test it, I can rig that kind of discharger here at work.
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:31 PM   #149
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I got this from FMA in regards to me asking about the Core balance tap and using a CellPro 4s

"Their node connector does not fit our adapters. This is kind of funny because I just had a walk-in customer last week with this same pack. I cut and spliced a CPBP7 to it to make it compatible with his Cellpro charger. Works great!"
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Old 11-21-2007, 12:46 PM   #150
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I traded several E-mails with Howard Matos (FMA Technical Support). He was very helpful for what I needed. I have the Scorpion Charger from FMA.

What did you end up with?
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