R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-23-2007, 11:07 AM   #1
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default Thinking about Going to Brushless: I have questions

I have been racing for years and racing brushed motors. I am thinking about switching to brushless after the IIC here in Vegas. I plan on using the New Tekin ESC when it is available because of the small footprint.

I know that this is an opiniated (spelled right?) questions but what it the best brushless 10.5 motor out there?

Will it run with a Tekin ESC?

I would like to hear from some guys that are running them and have also ran brushed.

Do you feel any difference between brushed and brushless in 19turn? If you do what are they?

Like i said, i have been racing for a while and I am very experienced in RC but not brushless. thanks for any info that you might have.
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 11:27 AM   #2
Tech Addict
 
Toughbeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Posts: 508
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

I think even the starter version of the tekin esc will run a 10.5

I can keep up with a 10x2 against the brushless guys in mod class but I need to cut almost after each run. I am going to switch to brushless as well because I need to rest between races instead of trying to get the motor ready...

for the 23T class I will stick with it for a little longer but once I am out of rotors I will switch to a 13.5 or a 10.5 to run in that class depending on the regulations and popular demand.

I like brushed motors because there is no wire mess Brushless is just crazy... but efficient as hell and very powerful.

if you compare the power of a 7T and a 3.5BL you will see the difference. /T will turn somewhere around 48K to 57K at 200 to 250W 3.5BL turns at 5700Kv and produces a woopin 520W

In the long run, as the Borg would say, "Resistance is futile"
__________________
Serdar Aytemiz

Racing since the 20th century
Toughbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 11:55 AM   #3
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

The only 10.5T motors currently available are the Novak SS Pro 10.5T (sintered rotor) and the Novak EX Sport 10.5T (bonded rotor). The discontinued 4300 motor has been replaced by the new EX Sport.

The Novak motors are sensored and require a speed control, such as the GTB, to maximize the sensored features of the systems.

In addition, the Novak motors are protected against thermal overload when used with Novak controllers.
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 12:22 PM   #4
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default

Thanks guys, I will keep that in mind. I am going to switch after the IIC here is vegas but I am not looking forward to the wires but they can be adjusted in your car especially if the ESC footprint is small.

Funny thing, if I go brushless, I don't know what I am going to do in between heats because there will be no motor to cut. LOL
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 12:23 PM   #5
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default

What is the difference between a bonded rotor and a sintered (spelled right?) rotor?

Which is better?
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 12:34 PM   #6
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elboogie
What is the difference between a bonded rotor and a sintered (spelled right?) rotor?

Which is better?
The sintered rotor is "better", but some tracks require the bonded rotors. Here is information fro TeamNovak's web-site:

Bonded Magnet Rotor: A recent development in magnetic materials [/b]is the high-energy polymer bonded magnet. Magnetic powder, namely neodymium-iron-boron (NdFeB), is blended with polymer and injection molded to form complex shapes. A maximum magnetic energy level of 12 MGOe is attainable with bonded magnets. The biggest shortcoming of bonded magnets is the low operating temperatures.

Sintered Rotors: Sintered magnets are a type of ceramic composed of compressed Neodymium-Iron-Boron powder. Sintering involves the compaction of fine alloy powder in a die, and then fusing the powder into a solid material with heat. While the sintered magnets are solid, their physical properties are more similar to a ceramic, and are easily broken and chipped. Sintered NdFeB magnets are generally plated or coated with Nickel-Copper-Nickel plating to prevent corrosion. Nickel-Copper-Nickel plating has excellent corrosion resistance and durability as well as providing a clean and shiny appearance. Magnets used in Novak motors are high-energy 30 MGOe, and high temperature materials.

Novak ROAR-approved, Nickel-plated Sintered Neodymium rotor. The rotor is the same high-performance rotor that the Velociti 3.5R motor currently features. The rotor is ideal for use with any and all applications and provides many benefits, including:

* Significantly increased magnetic strength for improved throttle feel
* Improved, stronger motor braking power
* Improved performance in higher temperature conditions
* Improved motor acceleration and power
* Higher efficiency
* Lower current draw
* Nickel-plated rotor for a long lasting, smooth, clean finish
* ROAR approved
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 01:03 PM   #7
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default

Thanks NovakTwo, I will keep that in mind when I purchase them in October. You guys are the bomb when it comes to info, thanks.
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 02:25 PM   #8
Tech Champion
 
STLNLST's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 8,996
Trader Rating: 21 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elboogie
I have been racing for years and racing brushed motors. I am thinking about switching to brushless after the IIC here in Vegas. I plan on using the New Tekin ESC when it is available because of the small footprint.

I know that this is an opiniated (spelled right?) questions but what it the best brushless 10.5 motor out there?

Will it run with a Tekin ESC?

I would like to hear from some guys that are running them and have also ran brushed.

Do you feel any difference between brushed and brushless in 19turn? If you do what are they?

Like i said, i have been racing for a while and I am very experienced in RC but not brushless. thanks for any info that you might have.

No one can say that they have run the Tekin unless they are a factory Tekin driver. My roommate is and I run for Novak and we have been testing alot of stuff and I feel that the Tekin runs best with it's own motors right now. They are making software changes to have the best of both worlds but for now it is what it is. The Tekin is smoother than the regular GTB but the new spektrum spread GTB is smoooooooth. They both have their pro's and cons but it might be vegas before the tekin actually comes out. Novak is the only company with motors out for every class racers are running right now. Some have mods only. How soon are you looking to get a brushless system???
__________________
REMEMBER THE GOOD OLE DAYS..........THEY'RE NEVER COMING BACK SO WE'RE STUCK WITH THE MESS IN FRONT OF US!!!!
STLNLST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 04:41 PM   #9
Tech Master
 
sportpak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ft Wayne, IN
Posts: 1,314
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

I've been running a GTB and the old 10.5 motor since last July. I use them for a rubber tire/carpet class we run. Mine runs as strong today as it did back when I got it. As usual for every system, if your not up in la-la land for rollout, it'll run strong and consistent a long time. I'll stand by the Noval stuff as long as I live.
__________________
-Tamiya TA05-R - Tamiya M05 - Summit Raceway Ft. Wayne, IN

www.summitrcraceway.com
sportpak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 04:49 PM   #10
Tech Apprentice
 
pepecueva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ecuador
Posts: 93
Default

I have been running with novak SS 10.5 pro for two weeks now. I will never ever try a brushed motor again. Just for testing, I run 4 packs in a row, and the motor keeps going strong. (aprox 50 minutes). In race, the novak motor is a bit faster in curves, and a little bit slower in the straight, but with a good chassis, you will not notice a difference. After the race, which I won in the A main, my motor was at 50 degrees C , while regular 19 turns where at 90 degrees C. Also, my 3700 pack can run 13 minutes in race conditions, while the brushed ones get slower after 6 minutes. Just be sure to get the sinthered rotor, it really makes a difference. I am using an LRP Copm. ESC, I know I shouldnt, but there have been no issues to mention, be sure to lubricate the bearings though, thats the only part that seems to wear out.

Be prepared to spend more money in tires, more time practicing, and more time to setup your chassis, anyway, thats what really matters.

pepecueva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 05:53 PM   #11
Tech Apprentice
 
TA05ers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 76
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Just went brushless about a month ago. It's an LRP Eraser 9.5 with the LRP Comp Sphere ESC. I'm racing brushed stock 23T, the brushless is only for practice, testing purpose. The immediate difference I noticed is the drag brake. When I'm running the brushed, there isn't a need to apply the brakes. Just let go on the throttle the drag brakes kick in and the car slows down instantly.

However, this did not happen when I switched to brushless. Even I set the ESC to have max drag brake, there isn't much. Just to confirm with you guys if this is this normal? Do I really have to change my driving stlye? i.e. by using brakes? What do I need to do to have the same feel as a brushed?
TA05ers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 06:07 PM   #12
Tech Master
 
sportpak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ft Wayne, IN
Posts: 1,314
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

I had to get used to the free rolling of the brushless too. If anything it made me smooth my line in and out. Trust it and let the car roll. You'll have to tune the chassis for it maybe. You may feel slower, when in actuality your not. I am much better for it I feel. The sintered rotor on the Novak stuff will cog a lot more then the bonded rotor, giving you the more heavy, brushed feel.
__________________
-Tamiya TA05-R - Tamiya M05 - Summit Raceway Ft. Wayne, IN

www.summitrcraceway.com
sportpak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 09:04 AM   #13
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
No one can say that they have run the Tekin unless they are a factory Tekin driver. My roommate is and I run for Novak and we have been testing alot of stuff and I feel that the Tekin runs best with it's own motors right now. They are making software changes to have the best of both worlds but for now it is what it is. The Tekin is smoother than the regular GTB but the new spektrum spread GTB is smoooooooth. They both have their pro's and cons but it might be vegas before the tekin actually comes out. Novak is the only company with motors out for every class racers are running right now. Some have mods only. How soon are you looking to get a brushless system???
I plan on going brushless after the IIC here in Vegas in September. I have heard good things about brushless but it has more to do with less maintenance and not having to cut motors, buy brushes etc, even though that has come to be a part of RC that I like, experimenting with different brushes etc. Like i said earlier, I am not going to know what to do in between heats (lol).

How often do your guys oil the bearings. Is oiling the bearings the same procedure as when I cut my motor and oil the bearings?

Are the bearings easy to replace or do you have to purchase a new motor if the bearings blow.

by the way, when you quote someone, how do you place the name of the person who posted it. You notice I have a quote but not the name of the person as you guys do.
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 09:23 AM   #14
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elboogie
I plan on going brushless after the IIC here in Vegas in September. I have heard good things about brushless but it has more to do with less maintenance and not having to cut motors, buy brushes etc, even though that has come to be a part of RC that I like, experimenting with different brushes etc. Like i said earlier, I am not going to know what to do in between heats (lol).

How often do your guys oil the bearings. Is oiling the bearings the same procedure as when I cut my motor and oil the bearings?

Are the bearings easy to replace or do you have to purchase a new motor if the bearings blow.

by the way, when you quote someone, how do you place the name of the person who posted it. You notice I have a quote but not the name of the person as you guys do.


After time or many cycles, you will notice the motor getting a bit noisy...

Replacing the bearings is easy , suggest you replace once the motor starts to growl or make a grinding noise ....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 09:45 AM   #15
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

I run once or twice a week, and oil the bearings about once a lifetime. :-)

Bearing maintenance seems to be more important the faster the motor gets. I've run the 10.5 and 13.5 for over a year now, and oiled each one maybe once or twice. We race on carpet, and they just don't get dry or dirty. Even when I oiled them, it didn't really seem necessary.

The GTB is a little big/unruly, and the wiring can be a challenge, but it's worth it. The ESC and motors, simply put, perform to perfection. I'm sure the forthcoming systems will be nice too, but Novak knows what's up.

I deeply hope that Novak will revise its case design in their future ESC with more perfectly flat, square edges, since side mounting is required for some applications. I also hope they'll replace the solder "holes" for the wires they use now, and possibly add a sensorless mode so we have more motor options. I envy the design of other ESC's, like the GM/Tekin/Quark, and kinda hope Novak updates that part of their design a little bit.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking about getting into brushless, questions about 13.5 setups... Syber Serulean Racing Forum 3 10-08-2007 07:09 PM
Thinking about getting into brushless, questions about 13.5 setups... Syber Serulean Electric On-Road 2 10-08-2007 06:30 AM
Thinking of Going Brushless Briguy Electric Off-Road 5 09-24-2006 01:43 PM
Thinking about 1/8 scale buggy, few questions Cain Electric Off-Road 9 06-09-2005 09:43 AM
Thinking about Quitting, JRSX, Spektrum, Novak Brushless, M8, Intergy blownaway-ig R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 14 06-09-2005 08:34 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:29 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net