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Thinking about Going to Brushless: I have questions

Thinking about Going to Brushless: I have questions

Old 05-23-2007, 11:07 AM
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Default Thinking about Going to Brushless: I have questions

I have been racing for years and racing brushed motors. I am thinking about switching to brushless after the IIC here in Vegas. I plan on using the New Tekin ESC when it is available because of the small footprint.

I know that this is an opiniated (spelled right?) questions but what it the best brushless 10.5 motor out there?

Will it run with a Tekin ESC?

I would like to hear from some guys that are running them and have also ran brushed.

Do you feel any difference between brushed and brushless in 19turn? If you do what are they?

Like i said, i have been racing for a while and I am very experienced in RC but not brushless. thanks for any info that you might have.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:27 AM
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I think even the starter version of the tekin esc will run a 10.5

I can keep up with a 10x2 against the brushless guys in mod class but I need to cut almost after each run. I am going to switch to brushless as well because I need to rest between races instead of trying to get the motor ready...

for the 23T class I will stick with it for a little longer but once I am out of rotors I will switch to a 13.5 or a 10.5 to run in that class depending on the regulations and popular demand.

I like brushed motors because there is no wire mess Brushless is just crazy... but efficient as hell and very powerful.

if you compare the power of a 7T and a 3.5BL you will see the difference. /T will turn somewhere around 48K to 57K at 200 to 250W 3.5BL turns at 5700Kv and produces a woopin 520W

In the long run, as the Borg would say, "Resistance is futile"
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:55 AM
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The only 10.5T motors currently available are the Novak SS Pro 10.5T (sintered rotor) and the Novak EX Sport 10.5T (bonded rotor). The discontinued 4300 motor has been replaced by the new EX Sport.

The Novak motors are sensored and require a speed control, such as the GTB, to maximize the sensored features of the systems.

In addition, the Novak motors are protected against thermal overload when used with Novak controllers.
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Old 05-23-2007, 12:22 PM
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Thanks guys, I will keep that in mind. I am going to switch after the IIC here is vegas but I am not looking forward to the wires but they can be adjusted in your car especially if the ESC footprint is small.

Funny thing, if I go brushless, I don't know what I am going to do in between heats because there will be no motor to cut. LOL
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Old 05-23-2007, 12:23 PM
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What is the difference between a bonded rotor and a sintered (spelled right?) rotor?

Which is better?
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Old 05-23-2007, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Elboogie
What is the difference between a bonded rotor and a sintered (spelled right?) rotor?

Which is better?
The sintered rotor is "better", but some tracks require the bonded rotors. Here is information fro TeamNovak's web-site:

Bonded Magnet Rotor: A recent development in magnetic materials [/b]is the high-energy polymer bonded magnet. Magnetic powder, namely neodymium-iron-boron (NdFeB), is blended with polymer and injection molded to form complex shapes. A maximum magnetic energy level of 12 MGOe is attainable with bonded magnets. The biggest shortcoming of bonded magnets is the low operating temperatures.

Sintered Rotors: Sintered magnets are a type of ceramic composed of compressed Neodymium-Iron-Boron powder. Sintering involves the compaction of fine alloy powder in a die, and then fusing the powder into a solid material with heat. While the sintered magnets are solid, their physical properties are more similar to a ceramic, and are easily broken and chipped. Sintered NdFeB magnets are generally plated or coated with Nickel-Copper-Nickel plating to prevent corrosion. Nickel-Copper-Nickel plating has excellent corrosion resistance and durability as well as providing a clean and shiny appearance. Magnets used in Novak motors are high-energy 30 MGOe, and high temperature materials.

Novak ROAR-approved, Nickel-plated Sintered Neodymium rotor. The rotor is the same high-performance rotor that the Velociti 3.5R motor currently features. The rotor is ideal for use with any and all applications and provides many benefits, including:

* Significantly increased magnetic strength for improved throttle feel
* Improved, stronger motor braking power
* Improved performance in higher temperature conditions
* Improved motor acceleration and power
* Higher efficiency
* Lower current draw
* Nickel-plated rotor for a long lasting, smooth, clean finish
* ROAR approved
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Old 05-23-2007, 01:03 PM
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Thanks NovakTwo, I will keep that in mind when I purchase them in October. You guys are the bomb when it comes to info, thanks.
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Old 05-23-2007, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Elboogie
I have been racing for years and racing brushed motors. I am thinking about switching to brushless after the IIC here in Vegas. I plan on using the New Tekin ESC when it is available because of the small footprint.

I know that this is an opiniated (spelled right?) questions but what it the best brushless 10.5 motor out there?

Will it run with a Tekin ESC?

I would like to hear from some guys that are running them and have also ran brushed.

Do you feel any difference between brushed and brushless in 19turn? If you do what are they?

Like i said, i have been racing for a while and I am very experienced in RC but not brushless. thanks for any info that you might have.

No one can say that they have run the Tekin unless they are a factory Tekin driver. My roommate is and I run for Novak and we have been testing alot of stuff and I feel that the Tekin runs best with it's own motors right now. They are making software changes to have the best of both worlds but for now it is what it is. The Tekin is smoother than the regular GTB but the new spektrum spread GTB is smoooooooth. They both have their pro's and cons but it might be vegas before the tekin actually comes out. Novak is the only company with motors out for every class racers are running right now. Some have mods only. How soon are you looking to get a brushless system???
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Old 05-23-2007, 04:41 PM
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I've been running a GTB and the old 10.5 motor since last July. I use them for a rubber tire/carpet class we run. Mine runs as strong today as it did back when I got it. As usual for every system, if your not up in la-la land for rollout, it'll run strong and consistent a long time. I'll stand by the Noval stuff as long as I live.
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Old 05-23-2007, 04:49 PM
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I have been running with novak SS 10.5 pro for two weeks now. I will never ever try a brushed motor again. Just for testing, I run 4 packs in a row, and the motor keeps going strong. (aprox 50 minutes). In race, the novak motor is a bit faster in curves, and a little bit slower in the straight, but with a good chassis, you will not notice a difference. After the race, which I won in the A main, my motor was at 50 degrees C , while regular 19 turns where at 90 degrees C. Also, my 3700 pack can run 13 minutes in race conditions, while the brushed ones get slower after 6 minutes. Just be sure to get the sinthered rotor, it really makes a difference. I am using an LRP Copm. ESC, I know I shouldnt, but there have been no issues to mention, be sure to lubricate the bearings though, thats the only part that seems to wear out.

Be prepared to spend more money in tires, more time practicing, and more time to setup your chassis, anyway, thats what really matters.

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Old 05-23-2007, 05:53 PM
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Just went brushless about a month ago. It's an LRP Eraser 9.5 with the LRP Comp Sphere ESC. I'm racing brushed stock 23T, the brushless is only for practice, testing purpose. The immediate difference I noticed is the drag brake. When I'm running the brushed, there isn't a need to apply the brakes. Just let go on the throttle the drag brakes kick in and the car slows down instantly.

However, this did not happen when I switched to brushless. Even I set the ESC to have max drag brake, there isn't much. Just to confirm with you guys if this is this normal? Do I really have to change my driving stlye? i.e. by using brakes? What do I need to do to have the same feel as a brushed?
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Old 05-23-2007, 06:07 PM
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I had to get used to the free rolling of the brushless too. If anything it made me smooth my line in and out. Trust it and let the car roll. You'll have to tune the chassis for it maybe. You may feel slower, when in actuality your not. I am much better for it I feel. The sintered rotor on the Novak stuff will cog a lot more then the bonded rotor, giving you the more heavy, brushed feel.
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Old 05-24-2007, 09:04 AM
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No one can say that they have run the Tekin unless they are a factory Tekin driver. My roommate is and I run for Novak and we have been testing alot of stuff and I feel that the Tekin runs best with it's own motors right now. They are making software changes to have the best of both worlds but for now it is what it is. The Tekin is smoother than the regular GTB but the new spektrum spread GTB is smoooooooth. They both have their pro's and cons but it might be vegas before the tekin actually comes out. Novak is the only company with motors out for every class racers are running right now. Some have mods only. How soon are you looking to get a brushless system???
I plan on going brushless after the IIC here in Vegas in September. I have heard good things about brushless but it has more to do with less maintenance and not having to cut motors, buy brushes etc, even though that has come to be a part of RC that I like, experimenting with different brushes etc. Like i said earlier, I am not going to know what to do in between heats (lol).

How often do your guys oil the bearings. Is oiling the bearings the same procedure as when I cut my motor and oil the bearings?

Are the bearings easy to replace or do you have to purchase a new motor if the bearings blow.

by the way, when you quote someone, how do you place the name of the person who posted it. You notice I have a quote but not the name of the person as you guys do.
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Old 05-24-2007, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Elboogie
I plan on going brushless after the IIC here in Vegas in September. I have heard good things about brushless but it has more to do with less maintenance and not having to cut motors, buy brushes etc, even though that has come to be a part of RC that I like, experimenting with different brushes etc. Like i said earlier, I am not going to know what to do in between heats (lol).

How often do your guys oil the bearings. Is oiling the bearings the same procedure as when I cut my motor and oil the bearings?

Are the bearings easy to replace or do you have to purchase a new motor if the bearings blow.

by the way, when you quote someone, how do you place the name of the person who posted it. You notice I have a quote but not the name of the person as you guys do.


After time or many cycles, you will notice the motor getting a bit noisy...

Replacing the bearings is easy , suggest you replace once the motor starts to growl or make a grinding noise ....
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Old 05-24-2007, 09:45 AM
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I run once or twice a week, and oil the bearings about once a lifetime. :-)

Bearing maintenance seems to be more important the faster the motor gets. I've run the 10.5 and 13.5 for over a year now, and oiled each one maybe once or twice. We race on carpet, and they just don't get dry or dirty. Even when I oiled them, it didn't really seem necessary.

The GTB is a little big/unruly, and the wiring can be a challenge, but it's worth it. The ESC and motors, simply put, perform to perfection. I'm sure the forthcoming systems will be nice too, but Novak knows what's up.

I deeply hope that Novak will revise its case design in their future ESC with more perfectly flat, square edges, since side mounting is required for some applications. I also hope they'll replace the solder "holes" for the wires they use now, and possibly add a sensorless mode so we have more motor options. I envy the design of other ESC's, like the GM/Tekin/Quark, and kinda hope Novak updates that part of their design a little bit.
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