R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-24-2007, 10:38 AM   #16
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elboogie
.....Are the bearings easy to replace or do you have to purchase a new motor if the bearings blow.

by the way, when you quote someone, how do you place the name of the person who posted it. You notice I have a quote but not the name of the person as you guys do.
Novak makes motor replacement/repair/upgrade parts available---rotors, endbells, bearings, heatsinks, fans.

You use the quote by clicking the word "quote" found in each date bar.
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 10:43 AM   #17
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo
Novak makes motor replacement/repair/upgrade parts available---rotors, endbells, bearings, heatsinks, fans.

You use the quote by clicking the word "quote" found in each date bar.

Thanks Novak
I would go to reply and hit quote form there instead of from the post itself. Thanks for the info about the motor and how to "properly" quote someone. lol
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 11:06 AM   #18
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I deeply hope that Novak will revise its case design in their future ESC with more perfectly flat, square edges, since side mounting is required for some applications. I also hope they'll replace the solder "holes" for the wires they use now, and possibly add a sensorless mode so we have more motor options. I envy the design of other ESC's, like the GM/Tekin/Quark, and kinda hope Novak updates that part of their design a little bit.
Speed control case design always requires trade-offs. For this series of Bl controllers, Novak's main goal was making the controller as watertight as possible by incorporating the gasket and screwed-on heat sinks. All power transisters are directly in contact with the heat sink for maximum heat dissipation.

A secondary consideration of the watertight design was the necessity of making all wires and plugs external in order to eliminate all openings in the case. An additional benefit is allowing users to repair/replace the harnesses and power wires without returning the items for service.

Before committing to the gasketted design, Bob spent months experimenting with waterproofing sprays and PCB potting compounds. None were acceptable. Some did protect against moisture, but were not useful when dust and dirt, etc. are considered.

I have not seen the other controllers that you list, but appreciate your inputs and suggestions to provide guidance for future case designs.
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 11:22 AM   #19
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default

It seems as Novak is the only company right now that is using the 10.5 (19turn equiv). Are there other companies coming out with a 19 turn equivalent?

It seems the best way to go is brushless but man are some of the ESC big or what? lol

I know that brushless seems to be the way to go because it makes sense on the track as well as your pocket.

Is there a reason why most of the big races (IIC, Reedy Race etc)have not incorporated a brushless class?
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 11:31 AM   #20
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default

Can anyone tell me the difference between these 2 novak ESC;s

Novak Electronics GTB Racing Brushless/Brush ESC

Novak Electronics GTB Spread Spectrum Brushless/Brush ESC


Is one better than the other or is one made specifically for the Spektrum radio controls or am I really off? lol
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 11:37 AM   #21
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elboogie
It seems as Novak is the only company right now that is using the 10.5 (19turn equiv). Are there other companies coming out with a 19 turn equivalent?
I don't know for sure, but I believe other companies are stalling on releasing a 10.5 and 13.5 since both would likely be used in "spec" classes and 27T and 19T replacements, and would likely have different design constraints from the mod motors in order to make them "legal."

I thought Orion had a 10.5 forthcoming, though.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 11:38 AM   #22
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elboogie
Can anyone tell me the difference between these 2 novak ESC;s

Novak Electronics GTB Racing Brushless/Brush ESC

Novak Electronics GTB Spread Spectrum Brushless/Brush ESC


Is one better than the other or is one made specifically for the Spektrum radio controls or am I really off? lol
The GTB SS has been optimized for, and can be used only with a Spread Spectrum radio .
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 11:41 AM   #23
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elboogie

Is there a reason why most of the big races (IIC, Reedy Race etc)have not incorporated a brushless class?
This weekend, at the Reedy ROC, many modified drivers will be using brushless equipment, while competing with drivers "still" using brush motors...
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 11:50 AM   #24
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo
Speed control case design always requires trade-offs. For this series of Bl controllers, Novak's main goal was making the controller as watertight as possible by incorporating the gasket and screwed-on heat sinks. All power transisters are directly in contact with the heat sink for maximum heat dissipation.
As always, you guys are on top of it with your R&D, and I'd expect nothing less. It's good to know you put so much thought and testing into all aspects of your hardware design. You're undoubtedly rewarded with a throng of loyal customers.

I realize it's only a subset of your intended audience, but in some newer sedans with narrow chassis, (i.e. Type R) it makes more sense to mount a large BL ESC on its side rather than flat to keep it from extending too far beyond the chassis. This is problematic with the GTB due to its case design, since it doesn't want to mount flush. You clearly can't tailor your design to one small group of users, and it sounds like you've got a very good reason for the case being designed in this manner.

Aesthetically speaking, I personally prefer the "smooth" lines of ESC's without all the gaskets (example). They're clearly an important part of the design, however, and I don't think anybody would prefer form over function when it comes to something critical like their ESC.

Every time I find some little superficial gripe about a Novak product, you guys always show up with a detailed explanation about why it's that way, and how much research you did before making your decision. That's cool stuff. I should just STFU methinks, I can't win. :-)
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 12:06 PM   #25
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NovakTwo
This weekend, at the Reedy ROC, many modified drivers will be using brushless equipment, while competing with drivers "still" using brush motors...

Have you guys heard anyone bitching about the fact that they are running with brushed motors against brushless? i mean is there going to be a performance difference?

I know that I use to run Mod motors (brushed) and I had the ability to turn up my timing to make the motor a little faster (as long as you had runtime).

Would that be a disadvantage for anyone running a brushless motor when brushed guys can change the timing on their motors to where the brushless are fixed?
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 12:31 PM   #26
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
....Every time I find some little superficial gripe about a Novak product, you guys always show up with a detailed explanation about why it's that way, and how much research you did before making your decision. That's cool stuff. I should just STFU methinks, I can't win. :-)
Never stop offering inputs.

Novak can only improve their designs by listening to advice from users and later, trying to incorporate the best ideas into future products.

(PS--Charlie is not a fan of our "porch" design either.... )
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 12:36 PM   #27
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elboogie
Have you guys heard anyone bitching about the fact that they are running with brushed motors against brushless? i mean is there going to be a performance difference?

No, never heard any "bitching"...

I know that I use to run Mod motors (brushed) and I had the ability to turn up my timing to make the motor a little faster (as long as you had runtime).

Would that be a disadvantage for anyone running a brushless motor when brushed guys can change the timing on their motors to where the brushless are fixed?

We'll know more next week after the Reedy race...

.
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 12:52 PM   #28
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

I'm not NovakTwo, but I'll give it a shot.

Quote:
Have you guys heard anyone bitching about the fact that they are running with brushed motors against brushless? i mean is there going to be a performance difference?
Mostly only from people (boo hoo) in mixed 27T brushed / 13.5T brushless classes. There's a bit of a speed advantage for the 13.5. In mod, it seems like people are accepting the adoption of brushless pretty well. Both brushed and brushless are generally competitive in mod racing, even against each other. In 5 cell racing (which needs to die a fiery death), brushless has shown itself to be superior in the eyes of many. The motors are more efficient, which is a big deal with 5 cells where dumping is a real problem. Did I mention 5 cell is dumb?

Quote:
I know that I use to run Mod motors (brushed) and I had the ability to turn up my timing to make the motor a little faster (as long as you had runtime).
You can adjust the timing of brushless motors, but it mostly seems to do nothing more than change the powerband. The top speed is the same, it's just a matter of how you want to gear it. There are brushless motors available that are basically faster than what most people can handle, so power is available.

Quote:
Would that be a disadvantage for anyone running a brushless motor when brushed guys can change the timing on their motors to where the brushless are fixed?
Na. Buy a motor that's fast enough for your application and go. The 3.5 is faster than a 7T from what I hear. Lots of team drivers end up using the 4.5 because the 3.5 is too fast and unruly. So, the speed is there. You're not going to lack anything (except something to do with your time) if you run brushless.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 01:44 PM   #29
Tech Regular
 
Elboogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I'm not NovakTwo, but I'll give it a shot.


Mostly only from people (boo hoo) in mixed 27T brushed / 13.5T brushless classes. There's a bit of a speed advantage for the 13.5. In mod, it seems like people are accepting the adoption of brushless pretty well. Both brushed and brushless are generally competitive in mod racing, even against each other. In 5 cell racing (which needs to die a fiery death), brushless has shown itself to be superior in the eyes of many. The motors are more efficient, which is a big deal with 5 cells where dumping is a real problem. Did I mention 5 cell is dumb?


You can adjust the timing of brushless motors, but it mostly seems to do nothing more than change the powerband. The top speed is the same, it's just a matter of how you want to gear it. There are brushless motors available that are basically faster than what most people can handle, so power is available.


Na. Buy a motor that's fast enough for your application and go. The 3.5 is faster than a 7T from what I hear. Lots of team drivers end up using the 4.5 because the 3.5 is too fast and unruly. So, the speed is there. You're not going to lack anything (except something to do with your time) if you run brushless.

Thanks for the info, I guess like the post said, we will see after the Reedy Race.
__________________
CYCLONE WCE
Jaco / Airtronics
Much More / Team Orion

"Drive Hard or Go Home"
Elboogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2007, 05:14 PM   #30
Tech Fanatic
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 902
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Every time I find some little superficial gripe about a Novak product, you guys always show up with a detailed explanation about why it's that way, and how much research you did before making your decision. That's cool stuff. I should just STFU methinks, I can't win. :-)
It also applies to any company designing a product.. you know the reason it's designed a certain way and there's likely to be a detailed explanation about why it's the way it is. If you're lucky and get the chance to ask the designer they'll tell you the reasons why.
BUT no matter how much research is done if another company comes out with a better product, for example one that's smaller and can be fitted on its side etc, you've lost.. a smaller or easier to fit ESC with all other specs being equal or better wins! There is still a way to go with the size of brushless ESC's, whereas top spec competition brushed ESC's have ended up pretty much as small as they're going to get.
Terry_S is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thinking about getting into brushless, questions about 13.5 setups... Syber Serulean Racing Forum 3 10-08-2007 07:09 PM
Thinking about getting into brushless, questions about 13.5 setups... Syber Serulean Electric On-Road 2 10-08-2007 06:30 AM
Thinking of Going Brushless Briguy Electric Off-Road 5 09-24-2006 01:43 PM
Thinking about 1/8 scale buggy, few questions Cain Electric Off-Road 9 06-09-2005 09:43 AM
Thinking about Quitting, JRSX, Spektrum, Novak Brushless, M8, Intergy blownaway-ig R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 14 06-09-2005 08:34 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 11:09 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net