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Old 05-13-2007, 01:33 PM   #46
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And that is the reason it's not that important to legalise LiPo's. Looking at clubracers at my local club, they use old 3300 and 3700 batteries. When they want to use LiPo, they need to buy more expensive chargers.
This is false. LiPo chargers can be had for extremely cheap. You could probably buy two or three for what you'd get for a used NiMH charger. And one good pack, while more expensive than NiMH, can easily last for years in the hands of most racers.
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Old 05-13-2007, 01:38 PM   #47
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I know that the Florida State Series (www.fseara.org) is probably going to allow LiPo in all classes for 2008. They will have a racer vote in September to allow mixing of 13.5 and stock as well as 10.5 and 19T. That will probably happen too.

In 2008 I will be running 10.5/Lipo

Syndrome is right LiPo chargers that work perfectly cost less than most NiMh chargers that we use today.

I have used DuraTrax Ice charger for the last year and they charge everything....they cost $100 less than the MM CTX chargers I used before.
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Old 05-13-2007, 01:42 PM   #48
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syndrome, don't get me wrong... Of course there should be developed in new technology, and of course it should be accepted.. But the problem is that club most of the times follow national organs which follow international organs. And as long as international organs won't do anything with it, most clubs won't do anything with it either... And the chances of getting LiPo in Europe is not that big i guess, because there are no 6V LiPo batteries, and they went back from 7,2 to 6V because the voltage was too high, and with this also the speed and power.. So I don't think they will change this soon, so I am afraid there will be now LiPo internationally, so it will also not happen on most of the clubs.. also I don't think many of the beginning racers will buy LiPo.. that's not an argument not to do it, it's an argument why I think it will take long before LiPo is legelised... But beginning racers most of time follow the advise of more experienced racers, and the experienced racers have got no experience with LiPo, so it won't be recommended.

Same thing last year, I recommended BL motors on my club together with 1 other driver, but no-one was interested yet. But when the Dutch organ legalised BL the club legalised it too. Any now the first starrting racers use BL motors... But with LiPo it will be the same thing
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Old 05-13-2007, 01:42 PM   #49
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LiPo will have the same problems in competitive racing that other batteries do, with voltage wars and the like. It appears, however, that this won't be as drastic as our current situation, and will still give the average racer a much better choice in the clubs.

Enjoy the times when it's allowed in the club races, mixed with NiMH, because this will been seen as the glory days of LiPo. The longer NiMH is king in racing, the longer things will stay good for those of us allowed to use it in the clubs.
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Old 05-13-2007, 01:50 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Thomson
syndrome, don't get me wrong... Of course there should be developed in new technology, and of course it should be accepted.. But the problem is that club most of the times follow national organs which follow international organs. And as long as international organs won't do anything with it, most clubs won't do anything with it either... And the chances of getting LiPo in Europe is not that big i guess, because there are no 6V LiPo batteries, and they went back from 7,2 to 6V because the voltage was too high, and with this also the speed and power.. So I don't think they will change this soon, so I am afraid there will be now LiPo internationally, so it will also not happen on most of the clubs.. also I don't think many of the beginning racers will buy LiPo.. that's not an argument not to do it, it's an argument why I think it will take long before LiPo is legelised... But beginning racers most of time follow the advise of more experienced racers, and the experienced racers have got no experience with LiPo, so it won't be recommended.

Same thing last year, I recommended BL motors on my club together with 1 other driver, but no-one was interested yet. But when the Dutch organ legalised BL the club legalised it too. Any now the first starrting racers use BL motors... But with LiPo it will be the same thing
I heard the 5 cell decision has essentially obsoleted brushed motors, even in mod. That's unfortunate, and I'm glad ROAR didn't follow that decision. Brushed motors should be allowed to thrive in mod, at least.

Clubs need rules, so it makes sense for many of them to follow the guidelines of their national sanctioning body, even if they're not a member. It's much easier than trying to define your own rules. Over here, at least, many clubs don't wait around for rule changes, though, and bend them to fit the needs of their racers. This is extremely evident with the massive acceptance of 13.5 motors in stock across the country. And while LiPo is still a challenge in many places, we're constantly hearing about clubs allowing them (thanks to pressure from their racers, usually) with weight limits in place.

Those clubs, in my mind, are leaders of the hobby, not followers. It's fine to follow, since it's safe and easy, but not everybody is content waiting around for someone else to make a decision when there's clearly a better choice, and it works NOW.

Adrian - Glad to hear you're giving the BL/LiPo thing a try! Let people know how it works out in the Florida series. Hopefully, with the fierce competition around your area, the difference in voltage doesn't hold you back too much. We find it's only an issue for the first 30 seconds or so, and by the last two minutes, LiPo starts pulling on NiMH hard.
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Old 05-13-2007, 01:53 PM   #51
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i absolutely do agree on you syndrome.. But I already know now that I can try getting LiPo legalised.. But I know it has no use....
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Old 05-13-2007, 02:05 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Rick Thomson
i absolutely do agree on you syndrome.. But I already know now that I can try getting LiPo legalised.. But I know it has no use....
I understand. It seems like clubs in other countries take the rules of the sanctioning bodies much more serious than we do in the US. LiPo will catch on somewhere, and I imagine when it does, you'll see it trickle down through R/C. It's going to take a while, though.
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Old 05-13-2007, 02:07 PM   #53
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Guys can stand on the sidelines and ask questions, or you can work to try to get rules changed...

The best way I know to get a rule changed is by having a plan, having true documented test data and having support by enough people willing to run what ever it is you want the rule changed for.

We are trying to get B/L motors worked into rules and lipos worked into rules...

That's a lot of change - problem is, you can't MIX the two types of motors, nor can you mix the two types of batteries....so you need to do one of a few things

a)If/When a big race is coming up - Show your support for the event by pre-registering, but requesting a class w/ LIPO/BRUSHLESS

b) MAKE Sure that class has enough support to be put on the bill

c)Work together with other racers who want to run that type of class to build a structured set of RULES AN STICK TO THEM

If 20 guys showed up to a large race, and were pre-entered and ALL of those racers also requested to be able to run a demo class with a certain B/L and LIPO combo and could show how awesome this type of class is and can be..and document the ease of using a SINGLE Battery all day long on race day, No motor wear issues, no brushes to deal with in the motors...

and take that and be persistant...YOU will be heard... ROAR can say NO, NO, NO, NO but if they feel enough pressure they will take a look and make changes...and IF they don't, make sure your membership is CURRENT and when it comes time to VOTE for new directors....excercise YOUR voting right~
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Old 05-13-2007, 02:15 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour
Guys can stand on the sidelines and ask questions, or you can work to try to get rules changed...
The main problem is the bureaucratic way of thinking and working in most of the international and national organs. To give an example Frans Heinsbroek already came with the 5 cell proposal at the EFRA AGM for the season of 2006. But it was denied, because EFRA first wants to see results before they are considering it. But during the Dutch AGM no-one wanted it, because it was unlike the rules of the EFRA. And the same problem will now come with LiPo.. Whatever you want to try. The problem is that to make your changes possible it has to be voted in an AGM, and to get is accepted you'll need half of the total votes. And there is less than 50% of the racers who see/want to see a future in LiPo at the moment. It's just a mather of time. Just like it was with BL motors. There are BL motors for over 5 years already.. But we race with it a little over 1...
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Old 05-13-2007, 02:44 PM   #55
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Rick Thompson,

One of the problems with rules changes over the years is people try to use a broad brush and create a rule change that affects ALL....or people have the fear of that anyway.

In the case of LIPO or 4 cell, or 5 cell etc. IF a exibition class were created at these events... so DATA could be accumulated in a public place where LOTS of others could see it...it gives you the data you need to use as a selling feature.

POLITICS of racing is a very delicate deal...but, the better prepared racers are, the easier time they have...and sometimes it means the RACER has to become a politician too.
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Old 05-13-2007, 03:51 PM   #56
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I know.. I have been a RC politician trying to get BL in.. But almost nobody is interested in an RC race/class when there are almost no drivers yet.. And especially when the organiser of the race or event in this place doesn't know what it's about or isn't interested you as single racer or as a hand full of racers can't do a lot about it..
When dor example 3 drivers want to race to give a demo on LiPo batteries.. you won't get you racingclass because 3 is not enough.. Not even for a single event.. You can do this only during a practiceday.. And then you can hardly give comparising results...
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:25 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
I spoke with a ROAR rep about this a few days ago. So far no LiPo companies have submitted packs and data on their safety and power capabilities.

I would suggest Orion and Dura-Lite contact David Lee of ROAR and get the ball rolling.
Adrian , no disrespect here ...

I may be wrong , but didnt Roar approve brushless without even one sample submitted from any manufacture ?




Roar excon, please stop the Li-Po ban
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:34 PM   #58
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Wild Cherry,

That would be doubtful...I would bet they had something in their hands along with some mfg. info.

Unlike some of US that are doing different testing and seeking out the product to test...roar relies on a MFG. sending them something before they even recognize it's existance.

I'm hoping Peak/Orion has submitted their Cased LIPOs for future consideration.

There is a regional orgainization (ARCOR) that is a OVAL organization that has created a set of rules for 1 class, maybe 2 to use LIPOS and B/L's.
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Old 05-13-2007, 05:56 PM   #59
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Yeah, you know what that something in their hand was (BIG $$$$). How else did Brushless get approved like a week before the Nationals in CT. As soon as one of the Lipo Mfg. pays the appropriate $ then it will magically become legal, quite possibly overnight, and probably right before the Excon's term is up.
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Old 05-13-2007, 06:03 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Adrian , no disrespect here ...

I may be wrong , but didnt Roar approve brushless without even one sample submitted from any manufacture ?




Roar excon, please stop the Li-Po ban
Yes but all the BL rules were written by the BL manufacturers so they had the facts in place. They have no such support from the LiPo guys at this time...they do want info so at this time there is no resistance to LiPo from ROAR.

They just need info so they can make an assesment about safety and data for making rules.
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