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Old 05-23-2007, 02:20 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by SWTour
...be careful what you ask for when you ask for 'longer' racing.

Remember that TIME is the issue. If you double the length of each qualifier and have 12-15 heats per round you have to figure (I'll use 4 minute heats @ 4 minutes) adding 2 minutes between heats with 15 heats you are looking at 90 minutes (1 1/2 hours) per round.

Step that up to 8 minutes, plus the 2 minutes between heats, now you have 150 minute (2 1/2 hours) per round minimum.

So if your program runs 3 quals and mains you've added 3-4 extra hours to the days program....or else you will lose a qualifier and the track will only run 2 qualifiers. (Remember, if you add 3-4 hours to a program also, it drops the $$$ Per Hour a track is making off an event...and some are very concerned with this issue)
To that regard, lessen the amount of Pros entering multi classes and it evens out for more people to get some burn.
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Old 05-23-2007, 02:22 PM   #347
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As for race times, if race directors and organizations would clean up their program a bit, it wouldn't be an issue. Too many tracks have 4-6 car heats and run such relaxed race days, that it wouldn't be a real problem to step it up and make it work. If you reduced the amount of classes for everyone to pick and choose from, as well, you could eliminate a lot of delays and slow downs from a race day.

The downside to your comment however is a lot of the people who RACE do it for FUN. You start cramming the speed of the program, or stuffing 10 cars in all the heats...and eliminating small classes, you may lose the guys who run 2 classes and help keep enough money coming in for the track operations to exist.

Cut a driver to ONE class, Take the FUN of the day away...and end up with less racers...and a track shutting down.

I've been to a lot of races where you have 3 or 4 classes with 10 cars in each class. Instead of splitting the cars into 2 heats, ALL 10 run together all day long..and it's usually a hack fest, plus only having 4 heats makes to program run TOO fast...and doesn't leave time to work on the car between rounds...especially if you are running two of the 4 classes.

bxpitbull,

I personally was not referring to ANY race with PRO's in mind, but moreso thinking of the CLUB races and local track events.

As for LARGE EVENTS, turn a 2 day event into a 3 day event...and GO FOR IT. PRO's are the LAST people I think of when trying to layout an event. It's the SPORTSMAN "common guy" racer that I want to see people cater more to.
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Old 05-23-2007, 05:52 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by bxpitbull
Boo hoo. Thats what you get for buying "dummy downed" 5 minute race packs.
Thank you for showing your true nature. I guess your comment was in your mind witty, I find it pathetic. I only braught up a point that needs to be considered if this class is going to be run as a demo class at the biggest race of the year(or suppose to be the biggest race of the year).

Also, why limit it to only trucks, why not 4wds and/or 2wds as well. In my area everyone is using lipos with 4wd vehicles and none in 2wd and trucks.
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Old 05-23-2007, 06:25 PM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Thomas
Also, why limit it to only trucks, why not 4wds and/or 2wds as well. In my area everyone is using lipos with 4wd vehicles and none in 2wd and trucks.
simplicity in tech. Nothing more.

Also, its a vehicle that isn't prominently used... we are wanting more information.

Nothing sinsiter, Tol.... just simplicity and ease. Its a demonstration event. Its up to the racers and the mfgs to instruct ROAR what needs to go into the books. This is step one for any new class to be created.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:04 PM   #350
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Dawn, thanks for the reply. I was just wondering about it, nothing more. and I do agree it could be the first step everyone has been wanting.
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:07 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by T. Thomas
Dawn, thanks for the reply. I was just wondering about it, nothing more. and I do agree it could be the first step everyone has been wanting.
no problem...

I'm just following this thread and making notes. Some very informative stuff here
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Old 05-23-2007, 07:19 PM   #352
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...I would bet people who are creative w/ gearing can get 20 minutes from a 3200 pack on a offroad track.

We're getting over 5 minutes out of them on a WIDE OPEN VELODROME running over 60 mph using the 10.5/4300 motor

We also got close to 7 1/2 minute wide open running the 4800 pack with a 3.5 at just over 70 mph.

For a 20 minute run I'd bet smoothness and consistency is much more important....

I commend ROAR for taking on the LIPO issue head on with the exhibition they are doing...a "REAL RACE" in front of people is THE best way to showcase something.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:12 PM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour
...I would bet people who are creative w/ gearing can get 20 minutes from a 3200 pack on a offroad track.

We're getting over 5 minutes out of them on a WIDE OPEN VELODROME running over 60 mph using the 10.5/4300 motor

We also got close to 7 1/2 minute wide open running the 4800 pack with a 3.5 at just over 70 mph.

For a 20 minute run I'd bet smoothness and consistency is much more important....

I commend ROAR for taking on the LIPO issue head on with the exhibition they are doing...a "REAL RACE" in front of people is THE best way to showcase something.

With a B-4 ,Lrp7.5,Carbon 3200

I go 18 minutes easy.....
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:27 PM   #354
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I don't think anyone has a problem with "LONG" heats/mains now and again to change things up. I just don't have any desire to turn electric into nitro...15-20 minute heats and mains would disrupt an already busy race day unless we jettisoned classes. Just going to 15 minute heats/mains a single heat plus mains would take longer than our current 3 heats plus mains. Couple that with the fact that sometimes we only run two heats if we want to get out early. For some reason we ALWAYS have a race scheduled on Superbowl Sunday...

As I said, I'd leave 1/12 alone at 8-minutes and increase TC to 8 minutes...that way the TC guys who corner for we 1/12 scalers aren't getting screwed. Equal wheel time, equal marshalling time. Win-win.

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Old 05-23-2007, 11:32 PM   #355
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Put it to a vote ...

and


I`ll always vote for another round of qualifying over just a longer main...
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:57 PM   #356
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...long 'enduro' type mains... I LOVE 'once in a while' They are a fun mix...but just that..a once in a while thing.

But, if on race day we can add a race...thats a totally extra race.

I don't really like our concept of 3 quals and 1 main...and I never have...but there's never really been a good alternative.

It would be nicer if EACH run counted for something...especially when there is a large crowd... That's what I like about re-sorted qualifying. Keep bumping the faster guys up until the last race is made up of ALL the fast guys...instead of guys just getting ONE good run and locking that time...seat the racers based on either a points system from a previous event, or do an actual short qualifying session (3 or 4 laps) use that data to set the races from there...

hmmmmm.... another thread SOOOOOO far off topic I forget what the original topic WAS~
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Old 05-24-2007, 05:43 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik
As I said, I'd leave 1/12 alone at 8-minutes and increase TC to 8 minutes...that way the TC guys who corner for we 1/12 scalers aren't getting screwed. Equal wheel time, equal marshalling time. Win-win.

Yeah, what he said.


Scott, I think we actually agree on this.

I think locally at the new outdoor asphalt facility, they are experimenting with LiPo and brushless allowed in the electric classes, and they are capping that with 10-minute mains, which I think is too long, personally, but it's better than an enduro main. Any place that is going to try to run long-distance mains for the sake of appealing to the nitro nitwits will lose a LOT of electric guys, IMO. There are a lot of reasons many of us do not run nitro cars, and the length of the races (and marshalling) is one of them.

Don't try to make LiPo/brushless/electric racing something it's not. Take advantage of the technology, but don't abuse the performance to the limits, or you WILL have people pushing the boundaries of the technology, and you WILL find ALL of the downsides to LiPos really fast.
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Old 05-24-2007, 06:36 AM   #358
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There are... but it depends on the program... Our FSEARA series now runs mod in a "Reedy" type heads up program. No Qualifiing, just 6 heads up heats... Best thing we have done for mod in a long time.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour
...

I don't really like our concept of 3 quals and 1 main...and I never have...but there's never really been a good alternative.
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Old 05-24-2007, 08:10 AM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. Thomas
Thank you for showing your true nature. I guess your comment was in your mind witty, I find it pathetic. I only braught up a point that needs to be considered if this class is going to be run as a demo class at the biggest race of the year(or suppose to be the biggest race of the year).

Also, why limit it to only trucks, why not 4wds and/or 2wds as well. In my area everyone is using lipos with 4wd vehicles and none in 2wd and trucks.
Yo T, stiffen that upper lip. I am a nasty mofo and everyone knows it. I dont pretend to be a nice guy. The comment was tongue in cheek however. Stop being so moist.
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Old 05-25-2007, 05:03 AM   #360
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On the off road we have been racing 20 minute electric mains for over 3 years in an area where electric has basically died except for this class. We have a real good following of guys who want the ease and cleaniness of electric with the RUNTIME/TRACK TIME of Nitro!!!!! Face it that is why so many run nitro because of the extended track time without changing batteries every 5 minutes, cutting coms, changing brushes, charging/discharging those special packs of batteries that has driven so many off from electric to nitro!!!!

If you race off road alot of you guys love that kind of electric and look around, your numbers are shrinking....this class is meant to appeal to the masses that don't want the headaches of the brushed motor/nickel battery world and don't want the tuning nightmares of nitro along with the clean up part too.....Enter Li-pos and brushless Truck racing that eliminates the comm cutting/battery tuning along with virtually maintence free racing eliminating battery wars by using 8000 mah packs and racing for 20 minutes that also allows a good racer who was not lucky on the lucky first lap to make it up in a 20 minute race that will require the racer to keep from breaking and finish too!

If you guys truely want electric to come back, consider longer races to appeal to the masses that want to race RC with the least headaches possible and getting tons of track time.

The cost of li-pos are already dropping along with brushless cost too, so the intial start up cost is alot cheaper over the long run! I know several racers that just come to the track with 1 8000 mah li-po that never even comes out of the truck and 1 charger!!! The future is here!!!!

PS. Now I have to go buy some nickel batteries that I have not owned since last years Pro Series, so I can race in the Masters class at that race too!
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