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Old 05-17-2007, 09:47 PM   #181
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What was that I just read, "The nitro popularity will burn itself out"? You are kidding right? Whats the first thing someone says when they walk into a hobby shop to pick out a new car?........Lets see...... "How fast does this go"!!! Lets face it folks nitro is growing by leaps and bounds. People want to go FAST right NOW, not wait 1hr 20mins for a 4300 batt to charge. Just look at all the RTR ad's now... this car goes XXX mph......2 speed this......and yes 3 speed that.
Electric is in a bad position right now, dont know if lipo and BL will save them or not.
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:07 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull
Here is the next question and I am glad someone chimed on it.....it isnt about Li-Po taking over (it will) it's about allowing them in the first place. If people dont stand for li-po's now, it aint gonna happen. With Asia and Europe adapting less than 6 cell for Mod, that knocks li-po out the box. With the influence they have on the American market and everyone jumping on the 5 cell bandwagon, what do you sub c people expect? Some of us like the length of nitro races and prefer electric. I beg any of you sub c people to show me ONE instance of a car getting 20 minutes with a sub c pack with a HOT motor. Man, you people have the vision of a cavebat.
Dirt-dog I agree, I'm done with the time/money/effort/lack of durability from what we have now....My last couple of runs in stock bummed me out, I run good lines mostly but can't keep with the guy running brand new packs and new tuned/tweeked/zapped/ this-brush-for this track-with this weather-on this gear-with this hole and spring/whatever motors. New-disposable-go broke or go home What do I do when I don't run everyday? Sit at home monitoring packs like a geek on some science project? Forget it!
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:20 PM   #183
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This conversation looks very familiar..... I think there was a brushless conversation just a few short years ago that looked just like this one. Look at the brushless motors popping up just like weeds after a good rainstorm. Now there are rules and more and more racers are embracing it.

Same conversation with NiCad, and NiMH as well. Both of those were also "Dangerous" Lol.
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:22 PM   #184
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Good point ORANGE.
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Old 05-17-2007, 10:39 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull
huh???? Whats that all about?
It means I'm going to be quiet.
Thats why I signed off Go lipo. As in Go lipo not sub-c
I guess its really each to his own. Until they make them legal?
As long as I can run them at the club level.
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Old 05-17-2007, 11:16 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange
This conversation looks very familiar..... I think there was a brushless conversation just a few short years ago that looked just like this one. Look at the brushless motors popping up just like weeds after a good rainstorm. Now there are rules and more and more racers are embracing it.

Same conversation with NiCad, and NiMH as well. Both of those were also "Dangerous" Lol.
I don't think they are anymore dangerous then what have they both blow up catch fire whatever it's up to the racer to do things correctly everything we use is "Dangerous".This is simply about acceptance by roar for legal use in races.The ONLY problem is see right now is that they don't fit every car out there.They need to be able to fit in whatever car we are running be that TC or 1/12 or 1/10 offroad whatever it maybe.Right now it's just not the case.And it would be alot easier if they were submitted to roar for approval at this time I don't believe that they have been submitted yet.


Simply put it's not going to get acceptance until roar makes them legal until then we can talk all we want but it won't matter.Roar needs samples to test period.I personally will always run whats legal that way I know whatever race I show up for I won't have a problem.I think that's how most people feel about it sadly we don't run roar and they set the rules so a million "lipo" threads on forums isn't going to do that for you only the companies that make the product can get the job done.
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Old 05-18-2007, 02:48 AM   #187
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that's an intresting point, why don't the lipo manufacturers support its customers and send ROAR some sample batteries and the specs that ROAR has requested?
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Old 05-18-2007, 05:57 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Leodis
I hate little kids. Put me in a room with a bunch of them and I'll have the flu within 48 hours. Damn rugrats!!!

by the sounds of the ...poem...you are a little kid
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Old 05-18-2007, 06:34 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb
n fact, I find it amusing the way you guys make such a big deal about the complicated maintaince rituals of nimh battery care. After a days racing, I leave my year and half old IB3800's in my car and pit box in various states of charge. Sometimes I leave my equipment packed up in my car outside in the cold. When Get back to the track the next time, I simply [repeak them and run them. I run the same packs multiple times a day. I do quite well for myself with batteries that I purchased for $30 a pack.
It's obvious you know how to really take care of your 2-3-year old 3800s. The current 4200s are a major hassle to keep working in their best condition. They are very high maintenance.



Quote:
Its funny, for the price of a maxamps 6000mah lipo battery @ $99, I can get 3 Ib3800 packs for a total of 11,400 mah of Nimh battery for $90. Humm, the math tells me that my nimh batteries are cheaper for more capacity, despite what you preach to everybody. Not to mention I can charge two batteries in the pits while I'm running one on the track, where with that one 6000mah lipo pack, I can only run it till its depleated, then wait for the charger to charge a 6000mah battery at the same 6 amp rate, untill it reaches its 8.4 volts in which i have to wait additional charge time because the amp rates drops with lipo charging.
Wrong on two counts.

While your three packs are degrading at a rapid rate—regardless of what you say, NiMh lose a LOT of performance and capacity, especially with your self-described care methods—that single LiPo pack with NO maintenance is performing the exact same way for hundreds of charges. When your 3800s have nothing left to give—well before you're done using them—that single LiPo pack is still like new and performing the exact same way. As many racers buy 3-4 packs twice a year, it doesn't take much time for that one LiPo pack to have paid for itself many times over.

Also, with your LiPo pack, you don't have to run it down from full capacity. You just top it off when you need to. It doesn't hold a memory and it has no repeaking performance changes. I don't know where you are getting your LiPo info, but you can charge it whenever you want with no performance changes or issues. While you're charging your three packs with three chargers, I charge my two packs at home, and don't have to carry any chargers, power supplies, discharging or equalizing trays to the track.



Quote:
The Nitro popularity will burn itself out just like it did with 1/8th on-road before simpler, cheaper 1/12 scale electric on-road took over. Nitro is too expensive, complicated and requires too much track space (expensive property) to stay popular for any extended length of time.
You may be right with that, and I would tend to agree with you there, but at this point the tracks are there, they are BIG and they are not friendly to electric cars in ANY way—off road or on road. The RTR mentality of the hobby right now, and the "speed is everything" marketing and magazine coverage on all forms of R/C cars doesn't help keep things realistic or favorable to those of us who still enjoy club racing with more than a handful of cars. Too many people are buying cars in a box to race at the biggest, fastest tracks they can find, and as electric racers, the complexity of keeping electric motors and batteries performing well is just as bad as a nitro motor.

A brushless and LiPo setup for electric not only is more economical (a lot less infrastructure for new and old racers), but a lot less work and maintenance on race day.



Again, I don't think anyone is asking for 180° changes in the national (general) rules—just some leeway with new technology, as brushless, DSM and many other things have gotten before.





Also, a company like Orion HAS tried to submit their packs for ROAR approval but has been told that they don't fit the general guidelines of size and shape, and won't be considered (yet). There are people in decision-making positions who are being also resistant to chance for some reason. And giving them credit for NOT moving to 5-cells is a joke, as it was a MASSIVE upROAR of disdain for the initial idea that threatened the very existence of the sanctioning body.
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Old 05-18-2007, 07:28 AM   #190
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Also, a company like Orion HAS tried to submit their packs for ROAR approval but has been told that they don't fit the general guidelines of size and shape, and won't be considered (yet). There are people in decision-making positions who are being also resistant to chance for some reason. And giving them credit for NOT moving to 5-cells is a joke, as it was a MASSIVE upROAR of disdain for the initial idea that threatened the very existence of the sanctioning body.[/QUOTE]


Actually I have talked to roar and several withing roar they say that they have never been sent samples and I am not the only one who has said this either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
I spoke with a ROAR rep about this a few days ago. So far no LiPo companies have submitted packs and data on their safety and power capabilities.

I would suggest Orion and Dura-Lite contact David Lee of ROAR and get the ball rolling.
and as far as roar goes they aren't making millions but they won't be going anywhere anytime soon.They won't just disappear if they don't legalize lipo.Imfar has not legalized them either and that is the world wide ruling body so even if roar goes bye bye most races would follow imfar rules so we are right back to square one.Everytime roar doesn't do something the racers feel is correct everyone bashes the heck out of them but quess what they are still here.In the last 20 plus years I have heard this soo many times it's funny in the end roar always does what's best for racing I Believe in the end they will make the right choice about it in the long run.
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:29 AM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill941
Actually I have talked to roar and several withing roar they say that they have never been sent samples and I am not the only one who has said this either.


To quote MrBlack (an Orion employee) from earlier in this thread...

Quote:
Just for the record we attempted to submit the Our LiPo's but we're told by ROAR they could not be accepted as there was no catoragory for a LiPo battery.

So regardless of the fact that ROAR claims to anyone who will listen that no LiPos have ever been submitted for approval by any company, they seem to be blocking the attempts before they ever happen. Semantics and politics at it's very best.








Out of curiosity, I'm wondering something here. We can go back and forth all day debating on the legitimacy of the acceptance of new technology and never come to a reasonable conclusion either way. What I am wondering, though, is what are the reasons that those of you so violently against the infusion of LiPo battery technology do NOT want them allowed?

To this point, I have not heard one legitimate reason to keep them out of organized competition.
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:29 AM   #192
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Who's forcing you to buy higher maintaince IB4200 batteries? All the older more reliable cells are still legal to race. I know there are slightly better ways to take care of Nimh batteries, I choose not to get all crazy and spend my time or money on over-hyped methods (like the ones the lipo bandwagon mentions). I still win my fair share of races and trophies. I know it hard for some of you to believe that you can use nimh batteries without all the crazy routines, but its true. Its a shame, if only you had only given nimh the same chance you want lipo to recieve.

I think that its funny that you guys with the lipo say that you can use the lipo packs for years with very little loss in performance. However, as soon as a better version of a lipo battery comes out with a higher discharge c-rate or higher capacity for instance, you spend more money on the newer battery before your previous battery is expired. How is that any different than some racers replacing nimh every so often for a performance upgrade?

I wouldn't worry about making sure electric has less work or maintaince on race day, even a brushed/nimh setup has less maintaince then Nitro racing, that dosen't seem to be a concern with the nitro racers who are making the class popular. I've found that durability (with bad driving) and the nitro noise are whats making the class popular.

There is more than just Orion for lipo distribution. Maxamps, Trakpower, Apogee, Kokam, A123, what about them? Nothing from them either? Why is it that the whole rest of the lipo industry dosen't support you in your quest for lipo batteries to be ROAR legal?
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:36 AM   #193
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Quote:
To this point, I have not heard one legitimate reason to keep them out of organized competition.
the current nimh batteries can be used in every current car chassis without modification to the chassis (and just about every past) car having equal battery capacity between all the various classes. I have mentioned this before.

lipo dosen't share this same attribute.
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:37 AM   #194
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Gentlemen, please go back a page or two and re-read Mr. Blacks post. They did try to submit their lipo to ROAR, but was denied.
Something seems fishy if we have the manufacture on here saying they tried and had been denied, and other peole saying that ROAR has stated they were never approached. I side with Orion on this since it doesnt make sense for them not to get this technology approved, the more acceptance the more sales.
As far as size I believe orion/peak has done there homework since I own both the 3200, and 4800 packs, both will fit anything I have, and the plastic case is a bonus. Rules should be looked at to include the plastic case to make them all uniform from maxxamps, cheap battery packs, ect and dimensions within 1-2mm.
Weight has been a concern also, but I did read something on the orion lipo thread that they will be releasing a 3200 pack with balast inside the case to mimick the weight of the current 4300 NiMh's. It would seem almost every point of concern is being addressed, by atleast one manufacturer.
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Old 05-18-2007, 08:40 AM   #195
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which saddle pack designed cars do the 4800 and 3200 lipo fit in? How about 1/12 pan cars?
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