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Old 05-17-2007, 09:39 AM   #151
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BX- Carlos make them better?? I don't think so!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzKxg6YG3gQ

Your too funny dude!
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Old 05-17-2007, 01:29 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by gezer2u
BX- Carlos make them better?? I don't think so!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzKxg6YG3gQ

Your too funny dude!
Yumpy yiminies, he infringed on a joke by Bill Cosby, one KNOWN comedian out of how many zipperheads who are struggling that people claim he jacked. Look, and we gonna let this go, if he took a joke from this dude and that dude and is as funny as he is, oh well. His show, his skits and stand-up is bananas! How come none of those other bozos are paid in full right now? Um, maybe their delivery sucked!
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:01 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottrik
We ARE, however, RACING our RC cars, and where ever there's an advantage to be had, be it real or marketing hype, that advantage will be sought out and it will be (willingly) paid for. Our history proves that to be fact. Racers have no self-control when it comes to spending money for what may only be a PERCEIVED advantage, be it RC or Formula 1.

Absolutely 100% true.

However, the VERY small percentage of the overall R/C market—the fringe fanatical racers—that is always looking to spend their last dollar on that last little bit, are NOT by any means the hobby's majority.

Most hobbyists, enthusiasts and recreational racers (me included) will look to LiPos for cost savings, capacity, consistency, low-maintenance, low infrastructure (dischargers, equalizers, wet nurses, etc.) and convenience LONG before they look for that extra edge with these packs. The reasons they are so enticing to so many people are far more practical than looking for that extra .01 of a volt. The racers and competitors who will always look for extra bump that should be happy to keep the NiMh industry afloat on their own, because from a realistic perspective, the production of those batteries will be a white elephant in the R/C industry in no time.



You have to remember, or learn, that the technology of Lithium Polymer batteries is NOTHING like what we have come to know in the last 30 years of NiCd and NiMh cells. It's comparing DSM to AM radios—nothing is the same—you can't compare the two. The problems we have with matched packs and cell "voodoo" are reduced to a minimum if not completely eliminated with this technology. Those of you adamant that there will be the same problems once people figure out how to "push" aren't listening to the reality of these batteries.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:30 PM   #154
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All the racers that have been in the hobby for a couple decades know that the same problems that nimh/nicd have had for the past 30 years will continue on with lithium based batteries as long as profits and performance are a part of the business of the hobby. Any person that thinks otherwise is a ignorant fool.
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:39 PM   #155
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Hey scrubb, I like that avatar Thumbs up to you...
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:43 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Scrubb
All the racers that have been in the hobby for a couple decades know that the same problems that nimh/nicd have had for the past 30 years will continue on with lithium based batteries as long as profits and performance are a part of the business of the hobby. Any person that thinks otherwise is a ignorant fool.

Thanks for that name-calling. I've been doing this for 25 years, and if you would read a little and research the things you speak of, you would see that there is a lot less room for "pushing" this type of technology than with normal batteries. Ignorance has encompassing parameters.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:15 PM   #157
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"if you would read a little and research the things you speak of, you would see that there is a lot less room for "pushing" this type of technology than with normal batteries."

Cell manufacturers are constantly revising chemical combinations in lithium batteries constantly looking to push the technology further and further. Look at how far lithium technology has come in just the micro world market of r/c cars in the past 3 years. From crappy lithium cells that burst into flames to todays high discharge current 20c batteries. The future will see Lipo with even lower internal resistance, higher voltage, lower weight, higher capacity, faster charge time, longer service life, and higher discharge capacity. Less room to push? Who are you kidding? Certainly not me. Ignorance is blind to innovation and advancement it seems. Lets see how well that quote stands a mere two years from now.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:16 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSpeed
you would see that there is a lot less room for "pushing" this type of technology than with normal batteries. Ignorance has encompassing parameters.
Ahhh...but see, you still allow that there's "room". And the less "room" there is the more that will be charged for the "statistical freaks". Always been the case, always will be the case. You've been around long enough to see. Rebuildable "stock" motors were going to be the savior of or end of the hobby depending on who you listened too. Same thing with nimh batteries vs. nicd...there's SO much in them no one will EVER have to pay for matched batteries, we could never use so much capacity, etc. Guess what...here we are and we CAN use the capacity. Racers being racers, if there's more capacity that just means I can put fewer winds in yet and gear the bejesus out of it. RACERS PUSH THE ENVELOPE REGARDLESS THE TECHNOLOGY.

BTW...whether RCers are buying nimh batteries or not will have ZERO effect on whether mfrs continue to make them or not. The power tool market drives that decision, just like power tools and other consumer electronics will drive lipo, limn, or whatever. RC barely shows up on the radar in terms of our market demand.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:25 PM   #159
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Scrub- This isn't your daddy's NiCad/ NiMh battery anymore. I don't even care if it becomes that. It is the fact that NiMh take a lot of care if you don't race every week. What I care about is people that are so closed mind that they can't see what is good or better, they are more of a problem then the furture that you asure us is ahead. No one wants to discuss the true points about lipos. All some want to do is call for doom and gloom. I'll say this again, even if it ends up like what we have now, and we saved money in the mean time, WHAT DID IT HURT TO TRY THIS?? Nothing. It won't hurt anything or anybody if what you doom sayers become fact. The matchers will still be in business and we'll be at their mercy AGAIN.

Post facts and stop trying to predict the future. Geeez.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:28 PM   #160
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Just like scottrik mentions about matched batteries. Sure Lipo packs have matched cells - just like NIMH. But they are only matched to be identical within the pack, not to be sold for $10 more because it has 10 seconds more runtime then the same "rated" pack sitting next to it on the shelf. And if your running a 20 minute touring car race, a guy like Barry Baker can use that 10 extra seconds to an advantage. The battery wars will continue.

Last edited by Scrubb; 05-17-2007 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:32 PM   #161
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doom sayers- so lets say there is room to improve these batteries. And when this happens it will cost us more money. OK, now what? (shrug) We are back to square one except that we don't have to be a slave to our packs. What do you have to say now about why we shouldn't use lipos?
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:32 PM   #162
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I like Lipo batteries, I'm just pointing outs facts instead of hopefull lies. Lipo batteries are not going to save the electric part of the hobby, its simply the next battery technology step. Nothing more.

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Old 05-17-2007, 05:35 PM   #163
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what makes you so positive that you won't be a slave to your packs with the next evolution of lithium technology?
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Old 05-17-2007, 05:59 PM   #164
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Can we take a step back for a minute here and remember that what this debate is really about is the legalization and allowance of LiPo batteries within the mainstream racing world—not the utter domination of one technology over another.

All that is being asked for is cohabitation and coexistence—not a replacement of current standards. That will happen as a natural progression on it's own, if the technology is worthy of the evolution.




No one is asking for everyone to give up their expensive NiMh packs and chargers (and by the way, I can buy TWO Duratrax ICE chargers for the cost of one CE GFX) to make way for a LiPo-only racing world. All that is being requested is to allow LiPo batteries to be given half a chance, to prove that they aren't going to explode (they catch fire), kill your families and steal your lunch money.

I'm just looking for an easier, more convenient, cheaper (yes, it's much cheaper) way to recreationally race every once in a while without having to set up a spread sheet for my battery maintenance schedule. I'm tired of being turned away from track A because the race director or track owner refuses to take a few minutes to learn the facts about a battery pack that he probably has in his pocket and on his office desk.




We're not asking to date your sister... just race with a different type of battery pack.
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:25 PM   #165
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Everybody else just wanted you to follow the rules and race with a legal battery.
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