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Old 04-20-2007, 02:48 PM   #46
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Im going to run a peak motor! It will just give everyone another excuse why they lost. I just hope the 10.5 comes out soon.
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Old 04-20-2007, 02:50 PM   #47
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Im going to run a peak motor! It will just give everyone another excuse why they lost. I just hope the 10.5 comes out soon.
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Old 04-20-2007, 03:22 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Joel Lagace
i was replying to X1......



And lets drop the issue of stock being for beginers. ITs not, its for cost effective,lower speed racing. The cars dont break as much and dont wear out as much. The speeds are low enough that new and old can enjoy it... Our club only runs stock at this time....

Racing needs rules. And Brushless needs to be defined by the rules. Especially for stock racing... Again if we all raced brushless stock we would still need rules.. Limitations
Actually I wont argue that. Your right but the speed I think should be determined by the 4300 vs. the 13.5 so the 13.5 could be for the beginners. Leave the 13.5 as is and get the stock class to the speed its heading, it gets faster every motor why not base the stock at the speed of the 4300 as most seasoned racers are more than skilled to run.
If some one wants to run stock 13.5 that would be ok but the fact is stock gets faster all the time may as well just do it get it done and end the battle for motor of the week.
No argument here we should all be able to run the class of our choice be it budget or skill. Fast or semi fast(13.5).
I'm just saying that a brushless motor slower than the track will go, will cause a motor of the week war. Between manufacturers.
Bump the speed to what every seasoned racer is trying to get to, and I think the war is over.
13.5 is a speck motor. Its to slow for the seasoned racer. And we will subconsciously go faster in the end.
Actually I don't know why I post these crazy ideas its not even my place to care, other than to just race what the man says I can.
I believe that manufacturers can be mixed at the speed equivalents of the 4300 and faster. (As for the time being).
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:30 PM   #49
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Hello........has everybody forgot about the fact that BL systems have bearings in them.....stock BR motors dont have bearings so right there they should never be run together ever..

Keep the change, 19 is another animal that needs to be addressed also..
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Old 04-20-2007, 04:44 PM   #50
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I think what should be done is make sperate(sp) classes because bl and brushed are not the same period.at the club level i can see you running them together but otherwise no way it just doesn't make any sense.I don't care how close they are or we think they are...They are not the same thing.


The other option is do away with brushed motors altogether and we all run BL but I can see how that would work at a big race level as for stock atleast and alot of 19 turn classes as well it is a handout motor class meaning everyone would have to run the same BL system.So if you run this race you need this system if you run say another big race you might need another.I can see this to be a big problem.The only reason I say this is because the point stock and sometimes 19t is to be level with the next guy if you run all different systems in the same race no one is level with the next guy.
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Old 04-20-2007, 05:12 PM   #51
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hopefully this all works itself out soon...
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Old 04-20-2007, 06:01 PM   #52
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Le sigh...
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Old 04-20-2007, 08:19 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAlbrecht
Hello........has everybody forgot about the fact that BL systems have bearings in them.....stock BR motors dont have bearings so right there they should never be run together ever..

Keep the change, 19 is another animal that needs to be addressed also..

Uh? welcome to the topic.. We are all fully aware of the differences. We are discussing how to allow both to be run in "ROAR STOCK" motor classes. A set of rules that woudl keep Brushless stock motors in check with brused stock motor. So as to not instantly kill either class but run together. The difficulty is yes they are not brushed,bushinge,49$ or less,tagged,ect ect, they are different, but we would like to figuer out if stock brushless will ever be built by a standard set of rules. or with a 13.5 slowly evolve to a 13.55,13.6, 13.7 ect ect..

Again its not supposed to be a mod motor, so its not supposed to keep getting faster and faster..


PS many seasoned racers like the current stock motor speeds. Its still racing if your racing 70 stock motor racers.... Much better then racing 6 mod racers
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Old 04-20-2007, 08:23 PM   #54
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LOL @ 13.5 to 13.55, 13.6, 13.7

If I'm not mistaken the .5 comes from the style of wire wrap (Like a mabuchi vs a hemi) except they are actually COUNTING the 1/2 turn w/ BL.

I believe the WYE style of winding has you end up with the extra 1/2 wind in all configurations.

MOTOR GURUS correct me if I'm wrong please
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Old 04-20-2007, 08:32 PM   #55
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CAlbrecht,

Me personally didn't forget about the bearing vs bushing reducing motor drag, which should help the efficiency a tad...

One of my hopes is be creating a catagory and/or a new motor that would run slow enough as to be equal or at first slightly to the slower side of a good stock motor is mainly because the B/L motors WILL get faster as quickly as guys learn how to gear and run them.

If you come out of the gate with a far superior motor, the brushed stock guys would refuse to race against them...but IF they have a good chance of beating them...or at least being equal a lot of the stock guys I know want face that challenge.

I saw someone on this thread saying $100 or $90 motors should not be allowed in stock - I will only agree to this if ALL STOCK MOTOR racers are ALL only allowed ONE MOTOR PER YEAR. 6 - $35.00 motors is a whole lot more expensive than TWO $90 motors....once you add the maintenance costs....and comm lathe, dyno and so on.
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Old 04-20-2007, 08:52 PM   #56
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At our track we discussed 23t as the more equivalent to the 13.5. Yet that is the same as going to a faster motor.
How about bearings in the stock 27t? From some of the GURUS I've talked to, they say it helps efficiency and thats about it.
Now is it true that in Japan there stock class is 23t?
And if so why?
OH and the 13.55 13.6 and the 13.7 is Hilarius.
Yet mod really doesn't kick in until the 5800's and even that is mild.
And I'm not talking the year 5800 either.
Its like we have this gray area and its called 4300.
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Old 04-21-2007, 12:45 AM   #57
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This is like comparing apples and oranges it's just not the same thing.I am all for BL i would to see a few changes but I like I just can't see running them together on anything but a club level just doesn't make much sense at a big race.I wish they were even but it just doesn't seem to be the case even if I want it to be.what needs to happen I think is we just either stick with brushed or go brushless.
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Old 04-21-2007, 06:36 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill941
This is like comparing apples and oranges it's just not the same thing.I am all for BL i would to see a few changes but I like I just can't see running them together on anything but a club level just doesn't make much sense at a big race.I wish they were even but it just doesn't seem to be the case even if I want it to be.what needs to happen I think is we just either stick with brushed or go brushless.

Your right bill and unfortunatly people on here rather compare them then figuer out how to run them together. And some many ingnore the fact that stock requires a set of rules..

Lets just assume for this discusion 100% of people agreee brushless is better for stock on all levels... ok thats over stop comparing... How do we take todays brushed stock class and allow brushless stocks in that currently are built with no restrictions,guidelines or rules without killing stock and just turning it into mild mod class?
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:17 AM   #59
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If you want to run a spec motor with bearings, why not run 19 turn?

Wether or not 27 turn was meant for beginners depends on who you ask and where they started racing. The club I started with made stock for beginners and when you got good enough you were forced to run modified. The really good racers moved up to expert. However I have spoken to other racers from back then that started elsewhere where everyone ran stock.

Maybe stock isn't for beginners, but it should be.

Why aren't the motor manufacturer's applying what they do to 27 turn motors to 19 turn motors?

For now each track will have to decide for themselves wether or not to allow brushless to run with 27 turn. My track doesn't allow it, but others do. Because of the difference in technology there isn't an easy answer to this.
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Old 04-21-2007, 07:28 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Joel Lagace
Your right bill and unfortunatly people on here rather compare them then figuer out how to run them together. And some many ingnore the fact that stock requires a set of rules..

Lets just assume for this discusion 100% of people agreee brushless is better for stock on all levels... ok thats over stop comparing... How do we take todays brushed stock class and allow brushless stocks in that currently are built with no restrictions,guidelines or rules without killing stock and just turning it into mild mod class?
I don't see a problem at a club level and a matter of fact i am sure it will be going on at the club level. But sadly when these people go to a bigger race roar nationals or something on that order they will have to have a brushed system.Which i think sucks but it's just not fair to run a handout class with non handout motors allowed in it the bitching would be endless.I could say fine run it but we all know that someone isn't going to be happy about it and the race director will end up being bald by the end of the day from pulling his hair out.


P.s.I also don't think by allowing it at club level will make a bigger race changes it's rules to allow it unless roar changes thier rules to allow stock to be a run what you have class same thing with 19t because most big races even if they are not roar races loosely follow roar rules.

I they personally this would go faster if BL was like brushed in the sense you buy speed control then pick out a motor to run with it.I am sure that the technology(sp) has some limits that don't allow this but I can only imagine if this was possible everyone would be jumping on the bandwagon.

Last edited by bill941; 04-21-2007 at 07:39 AM.
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