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Old 04-17-2007, 11:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
If the 4300 puts out 225 watts, I am the pope....thats a good 50 watts better than most tuned 19t motors....

The 4300 before the sintered rotor could not keep up with a good 19t.....at 2004 Paved Nats the stock guys were just barely off the 4300 class....

I dunno about all these ratings though.....I remember the 5800 was originally rated to be a 10 turn equal....

Later EddieO
The chart shows the 4300 sintered to be 235 watts.
And the SS 4300 bonded to be 195 watts.
The SS 5800 bonded was 225 watts now its 280 with sintered.
That big of a jump in comparison is what caused it to be so much harder to mix them.
Never heard a word about mixing till the sintered came out.
Don't get me wrong I really like the sintered, I have one in all of my motors.
I really don't get the rating between 5800 and 4300?
4300 went up 40 watts and the 5800 went up 55 watts.
Same magnet makes me wonder why they weren't both 40 watts?
The ratings are weird.
The difference between the two SS was 30 watts.
And the difference between the two sintered is 45 watts. What the heck?
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Old 04-18-2007, 12:59 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by UN4RACING
The chart shows the 4300 sintered to be 235 watts.
And the SS 4300 bonded to be 195 watts.
The SS 5800 bonded was 225 watts now its 280 with sintered.
I'm beginning to think this wattage thing is a completely arbitrary way of measuring motors. There is no way, and I mean no possible way EVER that a 10.5/sintered is faster than an 8.5/bonded. Just like there's no chance a 13.5/sintered is the same speed as a 10.5/bonded. If you go by Novak's wattage rating, that's what you'd believe, but it's unquestionably not the case.
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Old 04-18-2007, 01:32 AM   #18
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...don't analyze the BRUSHLESS motors by ANY numbers...RUN THEM - FIND The sweet spot for the gear - don't be afraid to put some gear on it.

From what I'm seeing way too many people are worrying about the #'s on a spec. sheet.

You don't know the parameters under which the test was run...and they probably aren't really relative to how you are going to run them.

Here's a number I've found that's been working good for looking into gearing and ratios.

10.5/4300 motor... 4300 RPM per volt (I'll use 1.225 volt per cell) which would be approx. 31,600 rpm w/ a 6 cell pack, but remember this is "UNLOADED" RPM - Free Spinning.

I've found using a 40% RPM Drop average under load gives a pretty decent starting spot...which would drop the usable RPM under load to about 18,900 RPM

What's your loaded 19t RPM @ say....35 amps?
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Old 04-18-2007, 03:11 AM   #19
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We run mixed Brushed/Brushless and they does not seem much in it at all. When the the divers that use brushless go back to a brushed (because their brushless has died) they usally do better because their car seems more drivable.
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Old 04-18-2007, 07:05 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I'm beginning to think this wattage thing is a completely arbitrary way of measuring motors. There is no way, and I mean no possible way EVER that a 10.5/sintered is faster than an 8.5/bonded. Just like there's no chance a 13.5/sintered is the same speed as a 10.5/bonded. If you go by Novak's wattage rating, that's what you'd believe, but it's unquestionably not the case.
Theres only one way to find out.
Erocks got a bonded 5800. And Lord only knows we a have plenty of 13.5's
OH and congrats on your TQ and backing it with the win, must feel good? Its hard to hold your breath for 5 minutes HUH? Thats the hardest part of racing.
These #'s are tricky. I wonder if these test were done with multiple motors or just grab a couple and test them.
I'd like to see the average between maybe ten or so, even 100.
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Old 04-18-2007, 07:17 AM   #21
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The old 4300s were no where near as fast as a 19T, Im optimistic with the sintered rotors they will be a lot closer (I hope so bc we combined them with the 19T motors this year). If anything I hope the brushless is slightly faster and encourages people to run brushless. The last thing I want to do in the 100 degree heat is work with a soldering iron changing brushes and cutting comms.
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Old 04-18-2007, 11:11 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
Theres only one way to find out.
Erocks got a bonded 5800. And Lord only knows we a have plenty of 13.5's
OH and congrats on your TQ and backing it with the win, must feel good? Its hard to hold your breath for 5 minutes HUH? Thats the hardest part of racing.
These #'s are tricky. I wonder if these test were done with multiple motors or just grab a couple and test them.
I'd like to see the average between maybe ten or so, even 100.
Thanks. :-) The R runs awesome when it's 5oz underweight!
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Old 04-18-2007, 11:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
The old 4300s were no where near as fast as a 19T, Im optimistic with the sintered rotors they will be a lot closer (I hope so bc we combined them with the 19T motors this year). If anything I hope the brushless is slightly faster and encourages people to run brushless. The last thing I want to do in the 100 degree heat is work with a soldering iron changing brushes and cutting comms.
Amen and the night we ran them, Bsydor and I. he was running a cameleon and I was running the bonded 4300. I would like to know what the sintered 4300 would be like against a good 19t.
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Old 04-18-2007, 12:05 PM   #24
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Our track has run them together and generally the 19T is a little quicker than a 4300 with sintered. Close enough though that it doesn't matter. Generally here though the guys that have run 19T really know what they are doing with brushed motors so they are very fast. I would say just try it... I don't think you will find a huge difference.
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Old 04-18-2007, 12:06 PM   #25
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No harsh was refering to Javier...And nobody runs the bonded rotor here. The 10.5 with the sintered rotor is extremely fast.And the reason for most the fast people running 19 turn is for practice for big races these guy are going to win no matter what.But the brushless makes the guys that are a second back a little closer to the front.
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