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Old 04-27-2007, 12:55 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by edseb
At the Worlds it was high, but no where near 30%. My point is that TC are a small segment of the market and going to 5 cell even with some manufacturers releasing some product will only pigeon hole us even more. There is no way 5 cell is going to catch on in any other form of RC, it will be specific to TC which is not good.... and seeing as how I work at a magazine, we hear a lot from manufacturers, and there are plenty who think 5 cell is bad.
No, at the worlds it was low due to most drivers having motors specially built for them. As spashett said, it was to the point where you didn't know if you were going to finish the race, in that regard 5-cell is good for TC mod.
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:03 PM   #62
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Some mag did testing on buggys, maybe year ago, and found out that using only five cells out of six cell pack did in fact decrease lap times. They had six cells in the car so the weight was the same. Fewer cells mean lower voltage and according to the Ohms law a lower voltage mean fewer amperes and that means the batteries last longer. You can't break the Ohms law, it's not like a speed limit. It's absolutely unbreakable.

IMHO the cheapest way to get more fun at races it go drive longer mains, I think 8 minutes should be fine for touring and 12 minutes for 1/12th. People here have been crying "no no no it will cost more because of this and that" but to make the time you have to gear the motor more reasonably and use higher turn motors, which will lessen the load on both motor and batteries making them last longer and favor better drivers instead of those with more money than sense.
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:16 PM   #63
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We had a state race last weekend and every brushed mod driver had problems. From Tossolini with hand made motors to privateers with shelf motors. Its not even hot down here yet.
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:22 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Jan, your problem with heat and gearing comes from the motor you're using, I wouldn't classify the old orion element as cool running and it needs gearing to the moon to work.
LOL, you are right. But with 5 cell the heatproblems are a little bit higher. Not because there is more heat(it's about the same), but because you need all the torq off the motor with the heavy gearing. With 6 cell's it doesn't matter a lot how hot the motor get in 5 min. but now I really feel difference in power with a hot motor(fresh pack after a run or a fresh pack with a cool motor).

I know the element is a nice heater but that's for another thread
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:34 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andsetinn
Some mag did testing on buggys, maybe year ago, and found out that using only five cells out of six cell pack did in fact decrease lap times. They had six cells in the car so the weight was the same. Fewer cells mean lower voltage and according to the Ohms law a lower voltage mean fewer amperes and that means the batteries last longer. You can't break the Ohms law, it's not like a speed limit. It's absolutely unbreakable.

IMHO the cheapest way to get more fun at races it go drive longer mains, I think 8 minutes should be fine for touring and 12 minutes for 1/12th. People here have been crying "no no no it will cost more because of this and that" but to make the time you have to gear the motor more reasonably and use higher turn motors, which will lessen the load on both motor and batteries making them last longer and favor better drivers instead of those with more money than sense.
That isn't the reason why guys went 5 cell. The traction was so low in Italy that decreasing the power in order to lay it done became a huge issue. Since most team guys only brought motors in the 10t-14t range, it became an issue. If they had 15t-18t motors on hand, they would have used them, but with time short, they didn't have time to hand wind those kind of motors. Orion tried to last minute hand wind motors in that range to get to the team, but others didn't have that luxury, so they tried to replicate those winds by running only 5 cells for that race. Other tracks and races don't have that problem.
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:38 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
No, at the worlds it was low due to most drivers having motors specially built for them. As spashett said, it was to the point where you didn't know if you were going to finish the race, in that regard 5-cell is good for TC mod.
Ok, like I originally said, the differences have pros and cons and my point isn't what is necessarily good for mod TC (that's another argument, although we have been discussing it here). My point is what is good for our segment of RC and how it relates to other bigger segments. Touring Car racing is getting smaller, and this 5 cell rule isn't going to help that. I'm saying if we keep 6 cell and look at other ways to combat the problem, there are better alternatives that keep the standard 6 cell configuration since altering that will have an adverse affect on our segment.
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Old 04-28-2007, 08:51 AM   #67
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Just to clarify...

The proposal to EFRA was for four cells and 1350g. After a lot of debate, an amedment was tabled for 5 cells, but they forgot to change the weight limit, so we were stuck with 1350g.

Of course it should have been 1400g or higher, as the cars you are talking about to get to 1350g are very expensive, and relatively fragile. It was a simple mistake (although they made the same mistake when 12th went 4-cell and EFRA kept the 6-cell weight limit!!) that could have been made by any organisation where people from 26 different countries can vote!

And as for TC popularity, it isn't declining, it's plummeting. Sales of TC electric kit are well down, and major distributors in Europe are looking to Gas and Aircraft for volume and profit. Electric RC is not thriving, and 5-cell is a delightful irrelevance for the priviledged few who can afford to race Mod at National and European level. The bread and butter sales of TC are for 6-cell 19T and 27T, and that remains the bedrock of Club racing.
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Old 04-28-2007, 09:29 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne
And as for TC popularity, it isn't declining, it's plummeting. Sales of TC electric kit are well down, and major distributors in Europe are looking to Gas and Aircraft for volume and profit. Electric RC is not thriving, and 5-cell is a delightful irrelevance for the priviledged few who can afford to race Mod at National and European level. The bread and butter sales of TC are for 6-cell 19T and 27T, and that remains the bedrock of Club racing.
Yes have to agree, TC popularity has dropped or at least the numbers attending meetings have dropped. It appears that for whatever reason electric RC is not thriving. Going to 5-cell for TC Mod does not help the popularity of TC in general, it may help to solve the equipment problems but to me a more attractive class is one where everyone races 6-cell.

I agree with andsetinn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andsetinn
IMHO the cheapest way to get more fun at races it go drive longer mains, I think 8 minutes should be fine for touring and 12 minutes for 1/12th. People here have been crying "no no no it will cost more because of this and that" but to make the time you have to gear the motor more reasonably and use higher turn motors, which will lessen the load on both motor and batteries making them last longer and favor better drivers instead of those with more money than sense.
If there's less entries for meetings, less people racing then there's more time to run longer races, 8 minutes for touring and 12 minutes for 1/12th would seem sensible. As andsetinn says it will lessen the load on both motor and batteries making them last longer and favor better drivers instead of those with more money than sense. To me that's a better solution than 5 cells. We need everyone in 27T, 19T and Mod the same on 6-cell, it's better for club level racing which is where most new racers get into electric RC.
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Old 04-28-2007, 09:35 AM   #69
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5 cell will be the bullet that kills the Sedan and electric racing overall...
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Old 05-29-2007, 01:04 AM   #70
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bye bye electric onroad. the numbers here have been down, even though the changes havent effected anyone here, people are getting out early anticipating the changes and are getting sick of it.
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Old 05-29-2007, 09:33 AM   #71
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you think 5 cell is bad, wait till they go 4 cell.
6 cell has much more punch put I'm sure much more difficult to drive.

tc has peaked probably because of the popularity of 1/8th nitro offroad. here you still have the sound and power, while brushless motors have no sound at all.

i guess in motorsports I prefer to hear a racing car that sound like a racing car. maybe we should put in a sound chip into our electric cars! lol
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Old 06-10-2007, 11:50 AM   #72
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Default Racing Organization Debating About Too Much Power

Seems like the r/c industry may not be the only one discussing reduced power. I found this article in Racer x (dirt bike mag) this past issue.
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Five vs. six cells-article.jpg  
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:02 PM   #73
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Not sure anyone thought of this but, Maybe the movement to 5 cells is a way to backwards eliminate the use of LiPo batts. Lipo is pretty equal to 6 cells, but it currently doesn't have an answer for 5 cells (6 volts) because of the cell voltage of the Lipo cells.
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:29 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitCrew View Post
Not sure anyone thought of this but, Maybe the movement to 5 cells is a way to backwards eliminate the use of LiPo batts. Lipo is pretty equal to 6 cells, but it currently doesn't have an answer for 5 cells (6 volts) because of the cell voltage of the Lipo cells.
It's definitely been brought up. Switching to 5 cells in the US would end up being a big race only thing for a lot of people, because you're not going to convince people to switch back from LiPo to NiMH if you try to introduce this ridiculous s*** into the clubs.
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Old 06-10-2007, 12:45 PM   #75
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Sorry if this has already been said but the thing that annoys me is i would like to do a bit of competeive mod racing as i always do 19turn, but having to change all my cells or make up a load of 5 cell packs is ridiculous
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