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Old 04-11-2007, 09:59 AM   #46
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In reference to this thread, has anyone noticed how the rules of ROAR are driven by the sponsored drivers and the manufacturers that sponsor said racers. A prime example of this was the recent 6/5/4 cell battery debate. Changes were made/pushed because battery manufacturers pushed this issue. These manufacturers are also the ones that are pushing to keep LiPo batteries out of the picture (remember, they donít manufacture these, yet). As soon as the major battery companies start producing LiPo cells, then you will see ROAR change the rules and allow LiPoís for racing. But I digress. The little man/everyday racer is not considered when ROAR makes decision in regards to rules, equipment changes, etc. It is the club/weekend racer in this country that buys the products and makes the r/c manufacturers their profits. But we are the ones overlooked when rules are made/changed, races are scheduled, etc. Like many have mentioned in other threads in regards to this subject, ROAR is now becoming an exclusive, not inclusive governing body. ROAR is suppose to be an organization for the thousands of racers that have joined and support the hobby/sport but the president and committees have made ROAR an organization for the few hundred sponsored racers and their big-bucks manufacturers backing them. The self-sponsored racer is tired of having to cater to how things are done to help the sponsored racer keep his status/edge. For those that think the current status quo is okay, remember that as the attendance to the races that you current attend continue to shrink. If ROAR was as good as some of you think, then other organizations like RC Pro would never spring up. And the last I checked, RC Pro is gaining in popularity among the racing community (especially in the off-road scene). ROAR has taken a lot of the FUN and ENJOYMENT out of racing at their races, something that RC Pro is trying to put back into r/c racing.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:02 AM   #47
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(to the tune of "Imagine", by John Lennon)
Imagine all the LiPo's we could use to race with...
Imagine all those Brushless motors that would need no maintince...
Imagine all the people that would race cheaper in the long run...
Imagine all the easier that R/C racing could be...
Then the world would be one.

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Old 04-11-2007, 10:06 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCSteve93
(to the tune of "Imagine", by John Lennon)
Imagine all the LiPo's we could use to race with...
Imagine all those Brushless motors that would need no maintince...
Imagine all the people that would race cheaper in the long run...
Imagine all the easier that R/C racing could be...
Then the world would be one.

It's just a matter of time that brushless motor classes will replace brushed motor classes. The transition should be somewhat seamless.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:20 AM   #49
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Well, I can tell you without a doubt, the sponsored racers and companies had NOTHING to do with ROAR's ban on LiPO Batteries....lots of people were using them as receiver packs...

And last I checked....a major company, Orion makes a LiPO battery....ROAR isn't interested because of an insurance issue...

The 6/5/4 cell debate......well, there was no data on the change and it wasn't just the sponsored guys yelling against it (some were actually for it).......and besides, my arguement....a 5 cell or 4 cell, basically elimantes LIPO.....so which do you want? 5 cell? LiPO?

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Old 04-11-2007, 10:22 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by syndr0me
Hahaha, sorry man, I couldn't resist. I'm hardly ever a dick anymore, but that one slipped out. I'd drop names too if I were friends with a popular pro.

Anyway, I understand why you guys that go to big races are wary about brushless. I think I did read somewhere that you said you're going to quit when brushless takes over. That's kind of weak, don't quit over something like that, all its going to do is make things a little easier, racing isn't going to change.
Our club racing is mostly mixed BL/BR with most guys running the Reedy Quad mag now to get ready for the RROC. I would and go visit So Cal and not race just to check it out and would see the BL guys waxing the BR guys and put them in the b-main..When I club race against the BL guys I have come to the conclusion that they look way faster from the rail looking in but when it comes down to it my KDs I win everytime..The speed advantage looks insane but most club racers cant get a hold of the power and get beat out right everytime..

I have known Toso since he was 16 and we both lived with Derek Furutani and off and on with Hodapp for a while.. I see Baker all the time , but who wants to see Bubble Butt Barry all the time..lol....

Toso is my boy and will always be there for me even if he is on the other coast..He got me into touring and I cant thank him enough for the help..

Most guys say that BL will alow you to work on set-up and get more drive time , but we all know thats bullshit ..It comes down to being lazy and not have to work for it, working on your motors should be right up there with car set-up, besides the BL units are choppy and arent linear on the throttle response thats the thing that most racers dont think about they just like the added horse power over a smooth throttle response..And most not all have there speeedo all spooled up with the punch setttings to the moon and they all think that there cars are the shit and in reality they are spinning there tires all over the track..

I will never quit racing it might come down to racing a few choice events a year that have nothing to do with BL ,I like how it is right now you still have to work for the win not be handed to you..


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Old 04-11-2007, 10:27 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Well, I can tell you without a doubt, the sponsored racers and companies had NOTHING to do with ROAR's ban on LiPO Batteries....lots of people were using them as receiver packs...

And last I checked....a major company, Orion makes a LiPO battery....ROAR isn't interested because of an insurance issue...

The 6/5/4 cell debate......well, there was no data on the change and it wasn't just the sponsored guys yelling against it (some were actually for it).......and besides, my arguement....a 5 cell or 4 cell, basically elimantes LIPO.....so which do you want? 5 cell? LiPO?

Later EddieO
5 cell would be my choice so I could take advantage of my motor building skills...lol.....

Lipo go get Fuct..
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:41 AM   #52
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RC pro series really isn't that great of an example. Have you seen their rules for Lipo batteries? The limit is 4300 mah, thats fine but there is no requirement for the manufacturers rating to be on the cells. Simply peel off the 8000mah label, and there you go, you could just say its a 4300. You can't say that it has more capacity because the cells are bigger, because there are no rules for cell demensions.

RC pro series rules are swiss cheesed with loopholes and oversights, in all of their classes.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:46 AM   #53
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I'd like to see ROAR hae a forum on their website that registered ROAR MEMBERS would be able to post on and have ROAR admin official respond to questions/concerns/ideas/suggestions/etc....

Threads like this are a waste of bandwith and diskspace. Anyone can post in here and it does require a person to be held accountable for their actions,posts and rantings....
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:08 AM   #54
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Everyone talks about how awesome ROAR was "Back in the day". Well, back in the day the only real major races WERE ROAR Nationals. You didn't have Snowbirds, The Novak Race, Vegas, RC Pro Series (although there was Norrca), etc. It's true for any hobby that people only have so much money to spend. People have a budget and they (generally) don't exceed it. Now if you have all these major races, people have to pick and choose what races they will attend. If someone isn't planning on running a World's event and they don't feel they can finish in the top 1/2 of the field, the motivation to race in a ROAR race is reduced. Plus, while the registration fee might be more for one of these other events, if you're not a ROAR member it may be cheaper in the long run. What's the solution? The hobby needs ROAR and we need ROAR to be strong and to look compident. The problem has been that there have been some individuals in the past that have done things that were right for them or right for their region but poor for the hobby as a whole. When you have ROAR officials trying to end qualifying at a Nats early just because THEY want to go for the day, that's bad and short-changes the racers (Rose City On-Road Nats... Barry Baker became one of my idol's that day). There have been people involved with ROAR's governing side that were only there because they were a part of the "Good Ole Boy's Club". The hobby is changing. The industry is changing. ROAR needs to change too, and I think they are doing a good thing with this RMT idea (Awesome idea btw, whoever came up with it gets some major kudos). I think getting a lot of the old guard out and getting new people in with fresh ideas helps. Guys like Todd Hodge, Steve Wang, Rob King, these are guys who have a clue because they have seen things from a variety of different perspectives. We need more guys like this, and few like a certain DL....
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:08 AM   #55
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Why would they want to do that. Everytime they come on everyone rips them a new one.
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:10 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLock
Changes were made/pushed because battery manufacturers pushed this issue. These manufacturers are also the ones that are pushing to keep LiPo batteries out of the picture (remember, they donít manufacture these, yet). As soon as the major battery companies start producing LiPo cells, then you will see ROAR change the rules and allow LiPoís for racing.
I would guess in terms of size, the companies actually manufacturing the cells would greatly favor LiPo/Li-ion, as those are the cells being used in everything these days. Doesn't NiMH have a fairly limited audience outside of R/C and legacy power tools?

I'm guessing you mean the size of the R/C companies branding the cells and selling them, in which case you'd have to say a big player like Orion is pretty major.
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:26 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAlbrecht
Most guys say that BL will alow you to work on set-up and get more drive time , but we all know thats bullshit ..It comes down to being lazy and not have to work for it, working on your motors should be right up there with car set-up, besides the BL units are choppy and arent linear on the throttle response thats the thing that most racers dont think about they just like the added horse power over a smooth throttle response..And most not all have there speeedo all spooled up with the punch setttings to the moon and they all think that there cars are the shit and in reality they are spinning there tires all over the track.
I dunno, man. I don't race so I can tune nasty little brushed motors, or fiddle with fragile batteries. I race so I can improve a skill, which is handling a competition R/C car, and compete against other people using that same skill. I don't consider tuning motors or babysitting batteries a skill as much as applied knowledge. There's still value in that, for sure, but I'm supremely confident in my ability to understand and apply something given enough interest, including motors, so it doesn't really seem like a challenge worthy of my time. Racing does, and if I can have that without wasting time doing something I consider mundane, then I'm all for it.

Most people that race have jobs, kids, and lives outside of R/C. While I would love to be able to dedicate myself to this 100% of the time, I and others like me simply can't due to other responsibilities. If we can bypass some of the things in R/C that require a lot of time, and still have a chance to compete, it's all for the better, because then you CAN use the time you have to improve driving and setup, and not worry so much. It's not about being lazy, it's about concentrating on the part of R/C that we love, and leaving behind the parts that we don't.
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:27 AM   #58
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RCGaryK - You hit the nail on the head with changing the old guard and bringing in guys with a broader prospective. It seems that many that currently govern ROAR are old-school, closed-minded guys that aren't willing to change and accept new and different things or look at situations from other angles.

Scrubb - I mentioned RC Pro because I have raced a few of there races and have had fun in both nitro and electric. My example was not about splitting hairs about specific rules, it was just about having fun and enjoying why we choose to race r/c. Much of that fun is not being had at ROAR sponsored events by many to the aura of catering to the sponsored racers.

EddieO - If you believe your argument about the battery issue, then I have ocean-front property here in Dallas, TX to sell you, really cheap!!!

syndr0me - Much of what goes on with the hobby/sport is money-driven. As soon as Panasonic and Sanyo can either produce or get their names on LiPo and Trinity, Team Brood, IB, etc can get their names on them, then watch the wave of the magic ROAR wand and then LiPo's will be legal outside of the receiver pack issue. If you look at many of the recent decisions/rule changes, they were driven by sponsored drivers/manufacturers so that different items have to be purchased to be legal, thus more monies spent to have to buy the latest/greatest to compete at ROAR-sanctioned races (bottom line - revenue driving).

Bullfrog - If the few members of ROAR that have come on hear give more plausible justification behind why they decide certain things rather than give us the standard "current administration propaganda lip-service" response, then we can have good discussions about ideas, decisions, etc.
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:35 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLock
In reference to this thread, has anyone noticed how the rules of ROAR are driven by the sponsored drivers and the manufacturers that sponsor said racers. A prime example of this was the recent 6/5/4 cell battery debate. Changes were made/pushed because battery manufacturers pushed this issue. These manufacturers are also the ones that are pushing to keep LiPo batteries out of the picture (remember, they donít manufacture these, yet). As soon as the major battery companies start producing LiPo cells, then you will see ROAR change the rules and allow LiPoís for racing. But I digress. The little man/everyday racer is not considered when ROAR makes decision in regards to rules, equipment changes, etc. It is the club/weekend racer in this country that buys the products and makes the r/c manufacturers their profits. But we are the ones overlooked when rules are made/changed, races are scheduled, etc. Like many have mentioned in other threads in regards to this subject, ROAR is now becoming an exclusive, not inclusive governing body. ROAR is suppose to be an organization for the thousands of racers that have joined and support the hobby/sport but the president and committees have made ROAR an organization for the few hundred sponsored racers and their big-bucks manufacturers backing them. The self-sponsored racer is tired of having to cater to how things are done to help the sponsored racer keep his status/edge. For those that think the current status quo is okay, remember that as the attendance to the races that you current attend continue to shrink. If ROAR was as good as some of you think, then other organizations like RC Pro would never spring up. And the last I checked, RC Pro is gaining in popularity among the racing community (especially in the off-road scene). ROAR has taken a lot of the FUN and ENJOYMENT out of racing at their races, something that RC Pro is trying to put back into r/c racing.
WOW...that sounded like my entire campaign....to bad I lost
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Old 04-11-2007, 11:38 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer
I'd like to see ROAR hae a forum on their website that registered ROAR MEMBERS would be able to post on and have ROAR admin official respond to questions/concerns/ideas/suggestions/etc....

Threads like this are a waste of bandwith and diskspace. Anyone can post in here and it does require a person to be held accountable for their actions,posts and rantings....
now that's a good suggestion...send an e-mail directly to Dawn and Mike.
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