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Old 04-07-2007, 01:05 PM   #1
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Default Stock motor(27turn) touring car-- lipo's and nihm's

DISCLAIMER: not a thread to bash either type just looking for info from people that actually race this class.. Our club is talking about it and the biggest issue is how to integrate them without forcing everyone to get lipo's and then make almost all of our charging gear useless(and lose resale value)


Ok I'm looking for feed back from racers who's clubs allow lipo's and nihm's to run in there stock touring class... Im not interested in mod class racers.


1)How did your club introduce them to the stock class?

2)Was there any immediate back lash from nihm users?

3)How long has the class been run with both and what is now the dominately used battery nihm or lipo?

4)Does either type show any huge advantage over the other battery? (considering run time is not much of an issue above 3300mah and assuming a 7.4v limit)

5)Did u cap the mah allowed to match what the max mah the nihm users where allowed? IE: 4300mah?

6)Are there any restrictions in place? Can any type/brand be used even the ones held together with fiber tape and tin foil exteriors?

Again not looking for anything more then feed back from clubs that actually run both types of cells in stock racing classes.... Not intrested in joe-bashers opinion. sorry (if i was no racing and just bashing i would be lipo equipt)
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Old 04-07-2007, 01:50 PM   #2
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Quote:
1)How did your club introduce them to the stock class?
People just kinda showed up and started using them. The track owners were cool about it, and only asked that we make minimum weight to keep it fair.

Quote:
2)Was there any immediate back lash from nihm users?
Not really. It's pretty even when weight rules are followed.

Quote:
3)How long has the class been run with both and what is now the dominately used battery nihm or lipo?
About a year now. A lot of people have switched to LiPo since it first started showing up. I'd say it's about 50/50 now.

Quote:
4)Does either type show any huge advantage over the other battery? (considering run time is not much of an issue above 3300mah and assuming a 7.4v limit)
A new NiMH with good numbers appears to have a little bit more punch toward the beginning of the race. This advantage seems to fade with each cycle of the NiMH. The LiPo stays the same.

Quote:
5)Did u cap the mah allowed to match what the max mah the nihm users where allowed? IE: 4300mah?
Not really. LiPo doesn't work the same way, a higher capacity pack doesn't produce more voltage. The discharge curve is relatively the same, it just lasts longer in higher capacity packs, but that doesn't seem to matter much now that run time isn't an issue.

Quote:
6)Are there any restrictions in place? Can any type/brand be used even the ones held together with fiber tape and tin foil exteriors?
YES! Orion packs only, though a few responsible people have experimented with MaxAmps. There are dangerous LiPo cells out there from questionable sources that get all the bad press. Quality cells like those from Orion/Kokam are proven to be much safer, and the hard case helps protect them from impact damage. Orion will be the first to tell you they've had no incidents of flame or fire or spectacular damage with their LiPo packs in the two years they've been on the market. They've had many incidents with NiMH packs in that time. Orion packs are a very safe bet. You pay more, but you're getting vastly better cells. Don't allow cheap LiPo. Force companies to use quality, safe cells if they want their batteries accepted in racing.

With weight rules in place, mixing LiPo and NiMH seems to be extremely even and fair. While new NiMH may show a bit of a performance advantage, maintaining that is extremely expensive and time consuming. I can understand how that would matter at a big race, but in club racing, I can't seen why anybody would want to use NiMH in lieu of LiPo. Save your fragile batteries for the big races, and let your LiPo do all the work in the clubs.
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Old 04-08-2007, 01:06 PM   #3
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Kool we are 100% owned and operated club by its members so things like rules change alittle differently then a hobby shop track where they embrace anything that makes the cash register collect!

Thanks for the input... Anyone else? Though there was so many track running lipo's??
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Old 04-08-2007, 01:13 PM   #4
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I think LiPo is one of the greatest things to come along. We've been running them at our track alongside NiMh for some time now. Since we only run five minute races, the biggest advantage has been the weight. But we've added weight to keep things fair. You're not going to blow the doors off anyone just by using one. A driver with poor skills won't go any faster because of LiPo.
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Old 04-08-2007, 02:31 PM   #5
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we would insist on minimum weight regardless of cell type.

so far for stock 5minutes they are very much the same then...
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Old 04-08-2007, 04:40 PM   #6
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Joel, from what I've read the peak voltage is slightly lower on the Lipos but they have a slightly flatter discharge curve. Personally, I think they'll be fairly close unless the NiMH start producing even crazier voltage numbers. At that point Lipos will probably be less desirable, unfortunately.
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Old 04-08-2007, 06:24 PM   #7
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1)How did your club introduce them to the stock class?
They just told us feel free to use them. They ask to follow min weight but don't tech it. We had one guy racing a 1200g TC the other day nobody cares we are there for the fun.

2)Was there any immediate back lash from nihm users?
No

3)How long has the class been run with both and what is now the dominately used battery nihm or lipo?
NiMH is still the battery to beat or at least the guys running them

4)Does either type show any huge advantage over the other battery?
Hard to tell local fast guys running NiMH, LiPo is for us less blessed

5)Did u cap the mah allowed to match what the max mah the nihm users where allowed? IE: 4300mah?
No

6)Are there any restrictions in place? Can any type/brand be used even the ones held together with fiber tape and tin foil exteriors?
No restrictions, I know of. I have an Apogee LiMn but I've seen Maxamps and Orion batteries as well

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Old 04-08-2007, 09:16 PM   #8
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Any canadians running the Orion or Peak Lipo's. Shipping these bad boys appears to be a problem. Any good sources (internet or Canadian LHS's)?
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:21 AM   #9
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Syndrome pretty much nailed it word for word.

Top guys at our track are running nimh's, lipos are close, but seem to be used by people who dont want to hassle with the maintenance.

I run a lipo, an Orion Plat 4800. The only thing that worries me is I dont want to be the first guy that has a problem with one on the track. Mine has been pretty bullet proof, had its shares of crashes and has come out fine time after time. I just wished they made it heavier, it being lighter isnt an advantage when I have to add a ton of weight to make it legal and balanced.
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Old 04-09-2007, 08:07 PM   #10
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wouldnt you just have to add the difference between the lipo and the nihm right onto the case of the lipo? How much lead is needed... I here there is a "heavy" version coming out soon
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Old 04-09-2007, 09:28 PM   #11
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I heard that as well. Its not a big deal really, I just prefer my car to look neat and have a clean appearance. Thats all.
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Old 04-09-2007, 10:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
People just kinda showed up and started using them. The track owners were cool about it, and only asked that we make minimum weight to keep it fair.


Not really. It's pretty even when weight rules are followed.


About a year now. A lot of people have switched to LiPo since it first started showing up. I'd say it's about 50/50 now.


A new NiMH with good numbers appears to have a little bit more punch toward the beginning of the race. This advantage seems to fade with each cycle of the NiMH. The LiPo stays the same.


Not really. LiPo doesn't work the same way, a higher capacity pack doesn't produce more voltage. The discharge curve is relatively the same, it just lasts longer in higher capacity packs, but that doesn't seem to matter much now that run time isn't an issue.


YES! Orion packs only, though a few responsible people have experimented with MaxAmps. There are dangerous LiPo cells out there from questionable sources that get all the bad press. Quality cells like those from Orion/Kokam are proven to be much safer, and the hard case helps protect them from impact damage. Orion will be the first to tell you they've had no incidents of flame or fire or spectacular damage with their LiPo packs in the two years they've been on the market. They've had many incidents with NiMH packs in that time. Orion packs are a very safe bet. You pay more, but you're getting vastly better cells. Don't allow cheap LiPo. Force companies to use quality, safe cells if they want their batteries accepted in racing.

With weight rules in place, mixing LiPo and NiMH seems to be extremely even and fair. While new NiMH may show a bit of a performance advantage, maintaining that is extremely expensive and time consuming. I can understand how that would matter at a big race, but in club racing, I can't seen why anybody would want to use NiMH in lieu of LiPo. Save your fragile batteries for the big races, and let your LiPo do all the work in the clubs.
syndr0me said it all.... We have the same outcome with the same process.... And racers are growing, before this, we avg around 6 racers, Stock only, now we avg around 40, in all different classes...
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Old 04-09-2007, 10:17 PM   #13
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Old 04-10-2007, 12:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliberX
Any canadians running the Orion or Peak Lipo's. Shipping these bad boys appears to be a problem. Any good sources (internet or Canadian LHS's)?
Really? I've had some Orion 3200's shipped from tower with out trouble. And bought a pack and charger from a local shop as well.

These guys had them: Apollo Hobbies They didn't think they'd sell strangely enough .
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Old 04-10-2007, 05:11 PM   #15
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Availability problem solved. LHS #1 get their stuff shipped direct from Horizon or Tower. Reg Post, FedEd, and Puralator won't ship Lipo's (according to their suppliers) .

LHS #2 doesn't get stuff shipped direct and can get them no problemo.....Thanks Mike.

Moral of the story - ask a question to many people, listen to all the answers before making your mind.

Gonna get a race spec 3200 and try it out and lend it out to some of the old veterans - you know who you are....
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