R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-12-2007, 07:55 AM   #76
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull

....When Xray does their research, they rely on their engineers....
When X-Ray changes something, It's due to their team drivers input. The drivers tell the engineers what they would like and the engineers figure out how to accomodate. The changes are initiated by some of the best and most experienced drivers in the world. It's not some pencil pusher with no track time trying to f#$k with the consumer.

Jason
Stampede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 08:32 AM   #77
Tech Master
 
bxpitbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Union City, New Jersey
Posts: 1,883
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stampede
When X-Ray changes something, It's due to their team drivers input. The drivers tell the engineers what they would like and the engineers figure out how to accomodate. The changes are initiated by some of the best and most experienced drivers in the world. It's not some pencil pusher with no track time trying to f#$k with the consumer.

Jason
Nonetheless, listening to their drivers....that kind of rules out their consumers doesnt it? The engineers then put their heads together to make the appropriate adjustments. Where does consumer fit in there? Thank you for solidifying my arguement. And how is refining and coming out with improvements effing with the consumer? Lower your tone.
__________________
R40-Pondering a new Red Dot
Hara Pro4-GTB/3.5/Max Amps-yea.
Pondering moving on to Xray-have to go with a winner. If you cant beat em, join em!

I gear to run and win, not to THERMAL!
bxpitbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 09:35 AM   #78
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 1,853
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull

You couldnt be more INCORRECT. Customers dictate zip. When Xray does their research, they rely on their engineers. Take a look at the T2. Just when everyone and their mother bought one, 7 months later, they came out with the T2007. CUSTOMERS were a bit peeved because they felt their cars were the latest and greatest, so why the new car so soon? It took AE how long to come up with a belt car...EVER. Consumers were begging and it was only due to the success of their competitors were they forced to come out with a belted car. Again, manufacturers go with what is successful with influence from customers, not the other way around.
Actually I think you are confusing market strategy with innovation. Xray came out with a new car to keep sales up. The "new" and "latest" technology becomes a "must have" for the competitive consumer. This does not affect my thinking on belt vs. shaft. If you have customers screaming for a belt car....(AE) and you don't make one, you lost market share ($$$$). I think that the belt vs. shaft thing is simply that. Not really a case of "which is better", but a case of which sells better. I think currently belts have the upper hand but that can change as easily as which car wins the next big race.
__________________
SMC ( www.smc-racing.com the only place to order your batteries online.), Awesomatix, Gonzo Paints, BN Racing

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Last edited by Advil; 04-12-2007 at 09:57 AM.
Advil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 10:13 AM   #79
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull
Nonetheless, listening to their drivers....that kind of rules out their consumers doesnt it? The engineers then put their heads together to make the appropriate adjustments. Where does consumer fit in there? Thank you for solidifying my arguement. And how is refining and coming out with improvements effing with the consumer? Lower your tone.
Lower my tone? Easy chief. Did you see any thing in caps or any exclamation points? Did I call you any names? Nope. FYI, I wasn't trying to argue anything. Just stating that the consumers have very little say in the "next" version. And that revisions are done for a purpose.

Lower my tone?.....Sorry Pa.....Get a clue.

Jason
Stampede is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 10:33 AM   #80
Tech Elite
 
edseb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Laguna Niguel, California
Posts: 2,421
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull
What are you an idiot? Look man, while the drivers may have some serious input, they ultimately have to roll with what the manufacturers tell them. Belts make things a bit easier to adjust for multiple races and diff access for belts is simpler. But if the manufacturers decided to push shafts, regardless as to what the drivers said, shafts it would be. If they said work with this, you would have drivers finding ways to make shafts work or less sponsored drivers. Now, put a cork in it!
Are you kidding me? What planet did you learn this stuff on? Often the drivers dictate to the manufacturers. Many act as their own mechanics and do there own testing. Often in many cases they act directly as the liason with the engineers or are the engineer. Guys like Hara, Tosolini, Baker, etc., all work on their own or unless they need some help due to time, etc. Tosolini and Baker, among others ran for companies that had shaft cars and as soon as they switched they all said the belts were better, hmmm. Hara even is deeply involved in the design process. Guys like David Jun even design parts for their cars that go in to production. In Masami's case, he has the option to run shaft or belt for years, including to this day, and his dad Masaki was his mechanic and is still considered to be on of the best engineers/mechanics. I have a better idea, you start a company, hire drivers, don't listen to them, design a car none of them like and go shaft instead of belt because the whole industry is wrong on this one. You'll make tons of money. Idiot.
__________________
RC Car Action Editor and Photographer
Carl Hyndman

Last edited by edseb; 04-12-2007 at 10:53 AM.
edseb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 10:37 AM   #81
Tech Addict
 
jhigga15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami
Posts: 513
Default

I say lest make a car that uses magnets to move the wheels...lest get rid of shafts and belts...

I think this has gotten a bit off topic
jhigga15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 10:41 AM   #82
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
I think that the belt vs. shaft thing is simply that. Not really a case of "which is better", but a case of which sells better. I think currently belts have the upper hand but that can change as easily as which car wins the next big race.
A factory driver who is one of the top 5 drivers in earth did some controlled testing on shaft vs. belt a couple years ago (His chassis sponsor made a shaft and a belt car). The belt car was consistantly 2mph faster on the straight at his test track, was consistantly faster lap time wise and used less battery over 5 min than the shaft car.

This was after a year running his shaft car and only a few weeks on his belt car. He never ran his shaft car after that test day.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 10:43 AM   #83
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 1,853
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
A factory driver who is one of the top 5 drivers in earth did some controlled testing on shaft vs. belt a couple years ago (His chassis sponsor made a shaft and a belt car). The belt car was consistantly 2mph faster on the straight at his test track, was consistantly faster lap time wise and used less battery over 5 min than the shaft car.

This was after a year running his shaft car and only a few weeks on his belt car. He never ran his shaft car after that test day.
I think I Billy introduced me to "that guy" at the Asphalt Nats. LOL
__________________
SMC ( www.smc-racing.com the only place to order your batteries online.), Awesomatix, Gonzo Paints, BN Racing

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
Advil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 10:50 AM   #84
Tech Elite
 
edseb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Laguna Niguel, California
Posts: 2,421
Default

BTW bxpitbull, not sure when why you opted to turn this discussion in to insults, so...
__________________
RC Car Action Editor and Photographer
Carl Hyndman
edseb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 12:14 PM   #85
Tech Champion
 
YR4Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,625
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

OMG here we go again. Which is better? Dis or dat? I've been in this hobby for many years and I've seen it all.

Back in the old days of dirt oval chain drive was better than belt because chain has less friction. Custom Works Dominator vs. Kyosho Slingshot

Back a while when AE put out the shaft, everyone said shaft was faster and more efficient because it lacked the friction that belt drives have.

Back again, molded graphite chassis were better than graphite plated chassis because it was "engineered" better from the molding process.

Now we're back to graphite plate, aluminum bulkheads with belt drive and that is the "new" state of the art chassis. Oh ya? Then I've got a bunch of original state of the art YR4s. Hows that?

Plus on top of that, everytime it is Da New Tech, it gets more expensive.

Save your breathe and just worry about paying for the next "New Tech"
YR4Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 12:44 PM   #86
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

Back in the old days of dirt oval chain drive was better than belt because chain has less friction. Custom Works Dominator vs. Kyosho Slingshot

This was true (chain less friction) until we started running stronger power systems than Reedy 19T Gold Dot Mods and Sanyo 1200SC's. By the time we were running 15T Twister and CAM motors on foam tires in Dirt Oval the chains just weren't strong enough.

Also, Custom Works was a tiny company back them. They didn't have the $$ to have custom belts manufactured for them. Chains were cheap and easy to size for their application.


Back a while when AE put out the shaft, everyone said shaft was faster and more efficient because it lacked the friction that belt drives have.

No not everyone...AE told everyone and most of you believed them because AE couldn't possibly be wrong. They certainly thought the shaft was better but the real reason the TC3 won everything for a long time was because it has the best suspension system for its time. Why did HPI and Yokomo make shaft cars...to cash in on the hype. When everyone else caught up as far as suspension development they learned the shaft was a liability and they all went back to belts

Back again, molded graphite chassis were better than graphite plated chassis because it was "engineered" better from the molding process.

Once again AE told everyone it was better and almost everyone believed them. There was never a perfectly flat TC3 chassis every made. Every single one was warped to some degree. The XXXS was the same.

The only good thing about molded chassis is that it is dirt cheap to manufactuer if you can make enough cars to justify the cost of the mold.


Now we're back to graphite plate, aluminum bulkheads with belt drive and that is the "new" state of the art chassis. Oh ya? Then I've got a bunch of original state of the art YR4s. Hows that?

Plus on top of that, everytime it is Da New Tech, it gets more expensive.

Really...how much did you pay for your YR4-Pro US or J-Spec? I paid $389.99 for mine back in the day. What to cars sell for now...about the same.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 01:07 PM   #87
Tech Champion
 
YR4Dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 5,625
Trader Rating: 44 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
...Really...how much did you pay for your YR4-Pro US or J-Spec? I paid $389.99 for mine back in the day. What to cars sell for now...about the same.
Uh I don't know where you bought your car but I paid at least $100 less for it new. Until the XRay and not including the exclusive Tamiya 414s, anywhere upside of $300 was unheard of for a TC kit back then.

I agree with you, tub chassis were junk and I never paid more than $100 for either the TC3 or the XXX because I didn't believe in wasting $200plus for a new one.

At the current rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if the next latest and greatest hit beyond $500 street. At that point I mights as well go 1/5 scale for about the same money. It already costed me more than a grand to outfit my last XRay electric tourer.
YR4Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 01:13 PM   #88
Tech Elite
 
edseb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Laguna Niguel, California
Posts: 2,421
Default

How bout molded Carbon Fiber?
__________________
RC Car Action Editor and Photographer
Carl Hyndman
edseb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 01:13 PM   #89
Tech Champion
 
AdrianM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,914
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Default

I got mine from Ultimate Hobbies. It was a YR-4 Pro J-Spec. The YR-4 M2 sold for $349.99. This was before Yokomo USA existed and shops had to import direct from Japan.
__________________
Adrian Martinez
What I run: Schumacher Mi5/Associated RC10R5.1/Associated RC12R5.2/Futaba/HobbyWing/Team EA Motorsports/BSR Racing
Where I run: Florida Indoor R/C Complex/Thunder Racing/Florida On Road State Series
AdrianM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2007, 01:15 PM   #90
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Costa Mesa
Posts: 408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YR4Dude
Uh I don't know where you bought your car but I paid at least $100 less for it new. Until the XRay and not including the exclusive Tamiya 414s, anywhere upside of $300 was unheard of for a TC kit back then.

I agree with you, tub chassis were junk and I never paid more than $100 for either the TC3 or the XXX because I didn't believe in wasting $200plus for a new one.

At the current rate things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if the next latest and greatest hit beyond $500 street. At that point I mights as well go 1/5 scale for about the same money. It already costed me more than a grand to outfit my last XRay electric tourer.
Switch to Corally were all the hop-ups are in one box, get this you even get aluminum shocks can you believe it...

A grand into a X-ray is fucking rediculous..

BL sytem, with lipos has to be a big part of it I dont see that much money going into after market parts..
CAlbrecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Belt Drive vs shaft drive vic88my Nitro On-Road 16 11-10-2007 08:26 AM
Belt Drive versus Shaft Drive SUNA Nitro On-Road 20 03-28-2006 09:04 PM
Belt drive versus shaft drive...pros and cons of each? AttackDonut Rookie Zone 21 01-02-2005 05:23 PM
Belt drive or Shaft Drive tc3wood Electric On-Road 4 12-03-2004 07:57 AM
Shaft Drive or Belt Drive? dino.tw Nitro On-Road 109 05-25-2004 11:04 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 09:55 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net