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Old 03-30-2007, 12:49 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by syndr0me
Well, he's right though. If heating pads give you an extra .1 volt for the first minute, we're all going to have heating pads. It sucks to say it, but at least some of the convenience of LiPo is due to its relative newness in competitive racing. That's not to say it won't end up being less work in the end, but it's not going to be this easy forever.

Really, if you can get clubs to let you use LiPo against NiMH, we should actually be hoping it doesn't catch on and take over too fast, because racers won't "ruin" it with their tricks quite so fast.
I agree it would be nice to keep the black magic out of it, but people want an edge. This is what happens when you run slow motors, you have to find a way to make them faster.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:54 AM   #62
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Jus think of all the voodoo crap that will hit the market too and supposedly do something......with literally no proof it works....but some fast douche bag will use it.....so then every slow guy will want one.....then company B will come out with their version....then C.....then D....one might finally work......a few hundred dollars later.....and then version 2 comes out!

I should of kept a list of all the brushless fanatics who called me an idiot and told me none of this was possible.......nice little PM saying "I told ya so:P"

Later EddieO

PS I plan on being company C or D:P
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:06 AM   #63
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I agree it would be nice to keep the black magic out of it, but people want an edge. This is what happens when you run slow motors, you have to find a way to make them faster.
If there's enough traction, it happens in mod too. Any time driver skill allows you reasonably control a car at a given speed, you're going to benefit from going faster. The only reason mod solves the problem at the club level is because nobody is fast enough to control it.

Anyway, you chickened out running the 3.5 on the rug, so I don't wanna hear it! :-)
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:13 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by syndr0me
If there's enough traction, it happens in mod too. Any time driver skill allows you reasonably control a car at a given speed, you're going to benefit from going faster. The only reason mod solves the problem at the club level is because nobody is fast enough to control it.

Anyway, you chickened out running the 3.5 on the rug, so I don't wanna hear it! :-)
My motor sponsor forgot to bring it 2 weeks running. Trust me the 4.5 is fast enough you should try it.
And I agree to a certain extent except the fact that you can always throw in a faster motor. But you have to have top of the line equipment to finish.
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:15 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by EddieO
Jus think of all the voodoo crap that will hit the market too and supposedly do something......with literally no proof it works....but some fast douche bag will use it.....so then every slow guy will want one.....then company B will come out with their version....then C.....then D....one might finally work......a few hundred dollars later.....and then version 2 comes out!

I should of kept a list of all the brushless fanatics who called me an idiot and told me none of this was possible.......nice little PM saying "I told ya so:P"

Later EddieO

PS I plan on being company C or D:P
You've definitely taken a verbal beating from the brushless zealots, so it's understandable that you feel vindicated. :-)

As for being company c or d, that's good and bad in my opinion. Somewhere in you, there's a guy that obviously really loves electric motors, how they work, and how they evolve. I'd like to think that part of you enjoys seeing technology improve, even if it's brushless, and maybe even wants to have some hand in designing and developing something of your own. I mean, you're a motor geek, how could you not love this stuff?

But, you're obviously smart about business, and can afford to sit back and let other people make all the discoveries, make all the mistakes, and then swoop in once it's all figured out, put a pretty sticker on it, and sell it at a nice profit. That's opportunistic, but I guess business usually is.

But, where'd the motor geek go? I'm a little surprised I don't hear you talk up the technical aspects of motors a little more. In a sense, it seems like your interest in motor theory will die with brushed, and brushless will just be an opportunity to use your strong brand name to make a few bucks. That's too bad. I hope I'm wrong.
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:27 AM   #66
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Hmm....I meant lipo fanatics.....but same thing is happening in brushless too.....I am actually a little suprised in brushless how bad the motor of the month thing has already gotten....

As for theory, I saw your thread.....just was a bit too tired to put in a thoughtful response...and while I know a decent amount about brushless.....I haven't fully dived into it.....I will get into sooner or later.

I actually submitted a patent for a brushless design element....

As for brood making a brushless.....it will happen, I am just not gonna do much till they put some solid rules in to go by.....too much money to be wasted by the companies and consumers without rules in place....right now, I think its a risky market with so much up in the air still......I don't think much money is being made on the stuff currently out there.......

Anything we put out will work.....regardless of what its for.....what I meant about being C or D is that we will actually put out something that works.....not just a thingie you plug in that supposedly works to make a quick buck off the consumer.....


Later EddieO
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:37 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Hmm....I meant lipo fanatics.....but same thing is happening in brushless too.....I am actually a little suprised in brushless how bad the motor of the month thing has already gotten....

As for theory, I saw your thread.....just was a bit too tired to put in a thoughtful response...and while I know a decent amount about brushless.....I haven't fully dived into it.....I will get into sooner or later.

I actually submitted a patent for a brushless design element....

As for brood making a brushless.....it will happen, I am just not gonna do much till they put some solid rules in to go by.....too much money to be wasted by the companies and consumers without rules in place....right now, I think its a risky market with so much up in the air still......I don't think much money is being made on the stuff currently out there.......

Anything we put out will work.....regardless of what its for.....what I meant about being C or D is that we will actually put out something that works.....not just a thingie you plug in that supposedly works to make a quick buck off the consumer.....


Later EddieO
Cool, that's good to hear. You're about the only well-respected motor company that hasn't put a foot forward with brushless yet. Not that I consider Trinity's offering much of a foot forward... but I guess they tried.

As for LiPo, it'll happen eventually, it already has in nearly every other segment that relies on batteries. I fully expect I'll be doing more to maintain them down the road, but I'm going to relish these days of plug & play until then. :-)
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Old 03-30-2007, 01:44 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Hmm....I meant lipo fanatics.....but same thing is happening in brushless too.....I am actually a little suprised in brushless how bad the motor of the month thing has already gotten....

As for theory, I saw your thread.....just was a bit too tired to put in a thoughtful response...and while I know a decent amount about brushless.....I haven't fully dived into it.....I will get into sooner or later.

I actually submitted a patent for a brushless design element....

As for brood making a brushless.....it will happen, I am just not gonna do much till they put some solid rules in to go by.....too much money to be wasted by the companies and consumers without rules in place....right now, I think its a risky market with so much up in the air still......I don't think much money is being made on the stuff currently out there.......

Anything we put out will work.....regardless of what its for.....what I meant about being C or D is that we will actually put out something that works.....not just a thingie you plug in that supposedly works to make a quick buck off the consumer.....


Later EddieO
Motor of the month thats an under statement, one more reason to run mod.
Brushless and rules will not go hand in hand any time soon. But for now its good for club racing. Keep up the good work.
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Old 03-30-2007, 09:36 AM   #69
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[QUOTE=Manning]
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Originally Posted by MrBlack
Would you care to explain this amazing technique that nobody else has managed to find including those that make the cells themselves?

If it involves temperatures this is not a sound solution as the advantage are marginal if any and inconsistant at best.

QUOTE]


You got it. Temperature. Let me put your pack in a cooler for a while, and I'll heat mine up. HUGE difference in performance. It's easy to heat up NiMh because of the constant current peak charge method. Can't do it as easily with the lipo constant voltage charge. Everybody is going to have a heating pad of some sort with lipos go get them up to temp prior to racing. Do you really think that this isn't going to happen? Go run a pack that's at 50F, then heat one up to 100F and see for yourself. Marginal and inconsistent, not hardly. Very real.

Not that it matters, but I used to work at a Military/Aerospace lithium primary battery manufacturer in R&D. Was 10 years ago now, but I've been around lots of batteries.
So what your saying is if you get my battery cold which does not happen naturally and then warm your battery which happens slightly on it's own then you will have an advantage?

Isn't that common sence and does this not only apply to those running in freezing out door scenarios? And trust us we have tried this as we got tips from the Heli guys and with our cells we give a temp in which they should be run at run it less or more and you will not have the optimum performance.

I would harldy call this voodoo and I will not even attempt to call this a performance advantage.
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:11 PM   #70
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[QUOTE=MrBlack]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning

So what your saying is if you get my battery cold which does not happen naturally and then warm your battery which happens slightly on it's own then you will have an advantage?

Isn't that common sence and does this not only apply to those running in freezing out door scenarios? And trust us we have tried this as we got tips from the Heli guys and with our cells we give a temp in which they should be run at run it less or more and you will not have the optimum performance.

I would harldy call this voodoo and I will not even attempt to call this a performance advantage.
My cold/warm battery example was an illustration of the effect. You and I know temp affects batteries a great deal. Yes it is common sense to someone who understands or remembers anything about basic chemistry. I think everybody understands the point I was attempting to make.

Racers are racers and will try to get the last fraction of a volt/amp out of the pack. Matching/voodoo/pre-race prep will happen.
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:23 PM   #71
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Prepping a cell for charging by whatever means is the same crap we have now.....common sense or not.....

The point being, just plugging these things in and charging.....and then popping them in the car will not have them all performing the same....

Simply put, if Paul Lemiuex farted on his cells before a race and then went from 10th to 1st and won......and said it was from farting on them......we would all be eating chili before we started charging, SMC would sell pre-farted on packs, and trinity would have fart in the can......Orion might go one step further and find fossilized dinosaur farts for the ultimate in punch....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-30-2007, 05:52 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Prepping a cell for charging by whatever means is the same crap we have now.....common sense or not.....

The point being, just plugging these things in and charging.....and then popping them in the car will not have them all performing the same....

Simply put, if Paul Lemiuex farted on his cells before a race and then went from 10th to 1st and won......and said it was from farting on them......we would all be eating chili before we started charging, SMC would sell pre-farted on packs, and trinity would have fart in the can......Orion might go one step further and find fossilized dinosaur farts for the ultimate in punch....

Later EddieO
OK! Who Farted? I'll take a can of the Hara Fart please.
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Old 04-01-2007, 11:08 AM   #73
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EddieO, you are EXACTLY right! But it's a big issue in this hobby. A lot of stuff is voodoo and more religious than it is practical. However, you know what they say about placebos...... "They work!".

As for heating up lipo's. I haven't been using mine regularly nor enough to get performance data. From the above; whats the optimal operating temperature and how does it correlate to extra wear?
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Old 09-05-2007, 12:17 PM   #74
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