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Old 03-29-2007, 11:19 AM   #46
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If you are trying to save money, your in the wrong hobby. If my budget is $2500 I'm going to spend it all and then some every year. It's only a matter of where else I'm going to spend it.

I can give you an example. As an owner of the Novak Supersport SS, Novak GTB, Sintered 6.5 Velocity, and soon to be owner of the newest generation of Novak Brushless system, I have not really saved any money by switching to brushless. I've probably spent a lot more than if I just bought a GT7 and stuck to brushed motors 3 years ago.

Isn't it weird how about every year or so there a new motor or system hits the market that makes my current brushless stuff obsolete?

The same thing will happen with Lipos. This is just the beginning. New stuff will keep appearing and you will be replacing your entire battery collection every year.

Instead of buying 6 4400 NiMh batteries for $45 each = $270/yr you will be buying 2 4800 Lipos at about $125/ea x 2 = $250/yr.

I would be willing to bet that Orion is already developing new Lipo cells that will perform better than the ones the made last year. I actually don't really have a problem with that. That's what its all about.

I like lipos for the promise of better overall performance

I don't like them yet because there is not enough manufacturers joining with Orion to design and make batteries specifically for RC cars.

Saving money is not really even in the equasion for me.
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Old 03-29-2007, 12:03 PM   #47
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I know some racers have reported that they were able to race with a single lipo battery and simply top it up between heats. As well, that's a lot less work and time than say arriving 45 minutes early to equalize and charge a nimh pack, then repeat that process before every heat / race. I can't help but feel like I'm a slave to the nimh packs with all their maintenance and charging issues. Not to mention cycling them during any off season. They're worse than a nest of baby birds with their mouths open all the time, squaking for food. I'd rather spend more time driving, and less fussing over batteries, so if lipo brings that to RC, I'm all for it. I've heard guys say that can't race weeknights because they don't have enough time to get to the track and charge cells. All that for 5 minutes of racing, somethings wrong here.
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Old 03-29-2007, 12:11 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceracer
I can't help but feel like I'm a slave to the nimh packs with all their maintenance and charging issues. Not to mention cycling them during any off season. They're worse than a nest of baby birds with their mouths open all the time, squaking for food.
Wow, that's a great analogy! I LOL'd.
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Old 03-29-2007, 12:54 PM   #49
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For me the affordability of racing is real concern, and I welcome any cost saving measure that allow me race more and still be competitive.

LiPo batts and brushless motors may not be for everyone but they are great for the less serious cost conscious racer like me.

Mark
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Old 03-29-2007, 04:13 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Lagace
I would like to see a discharge curve compared to the discharge curve of a nihm....
This is taken from a report from Trakpower (link to PDF below)...

Specs and Comparision Trakpower LiPo 4800 vs NiMH

It has pictures of an 04 with a LiPo in it...
Attached Thumbnails
LIPO ADVANTAGE?-lipo-v-nimh-30amp-discharge-chart.jpg   LIPO ADVANTAGE?-lipo-v-nimh-race-voltage-comparison-chart.jpg  
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Old 03-29-2007, 07:41 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disaster
Hmmmm...I wonder if this is why you are finding a your batteries drop off in performance after only a few runs.

Possibly, but I don't think the heat caused any gigantic reduction of life. But maybe it did. I just know that the performance increase is very real, so racers will end up doing something similar.

I was warming the packs to 95-100F, definitely not getting them hot. Simply setting them on top of my stereo for 20 minutes before use. And not everytime. Just when I wanted to play with max power.

What sort of performance increase would be gained by warming them to 120-130 like we do with the current NiMh's? Hotter? Maybe that's why IB's fall off so fast......hmmmm.
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:14 PM   #52
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does anyone here use the mrc 989 charger for lipos?
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:43 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning
Possibly, but I don't think the heat caused any gigantic reduction of life. But maybe it did. I just know that the performance increase is very real, so racers will end up doing something similar.

I was warming the packs to 95-100F, definitely not getting them hot. Simply setting them on top of my stereo for 20 minutes before use. And not everytime. Just when I wanted to play with max power.

What sort of performance increase would be gained by warming them to 120-130 like we do with the current NiMh's? Hotter? Maybe that's why IB's fall off so fast......hmmmm.
About warming the packs...
This is a quote (Page 4) from the Trakpower report (link on Post 50 )

"Tip: The only performance enhancing practices recommended and authorized by TrakPower are as follows: Pre-race warming to 30-40 degrees Centigrade. Cell balancing (the practice of ensuring that each cell in the pack is balanced to identical charge voltage)."
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:13 AM   #54
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Heh.....I thought there was no need for this stuff with LiPo....warming, balancing.....what's next? Discharge trays? matching? (please make note of the sarcasm )


Later EddieO
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:19 AM   #55
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If warming them up makes them better they should be awesome at the end of the race. I don't believe I'll be bringing a heating pad to the track.
I don't think it would be enough to make a difference? If You temp your platinum 4800's at the beginning of the race at room temp there about 77 degrees. With a 4.5 after the race they are 107.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:24 AM   #56
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LiPo Utopia is being threatened! Eddie's brood is at the gate with pitchforks and torches!
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:26 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
LiPo Utopia is being threatened! Eddie's brood is at the gate with pitchforks and torches!
Hes resisting the force.
We should chip in on a hot plate.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:28 AM   #58
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Bah, I got Kokam on speed dial.......we are coming out with something trick.....

But like I said two years ago......it will be new tech with all the same BS......matched zapped balanced.....whatever you want to call it.....they will find it....you will buy and like it.......$400 chargers, dischargers, etc....same thing......someone will always make a better wheel....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:32 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Bah, I got Kokam on speed dial.......we are coming out with something trick.....

But like I said two years ago......it will be new tech with all the same BS......matched zapped balanced.....whatever you want to call it.....they will find it....you will buy and like it.......$400 chargers, dischargers, etc....same thing......someone will always make a better wheel....

Later EddieO
Amen and I hope it keeps coming.
Soon we'll be hearing how to center a brushless rotor.

We will always try to make round, rounder.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:36 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
Hes resisting the force.
We should chip in on a hot plate.
Well, he's right though. If heating pads give you an extra .1 volt for the first minute, we're all going to have heating pads. It sucks to say it, but at least some of the convenience of LiPo is due to its relative newness in competitive racing. That's not to say it won't end up being less work in the end, but it's not going to be this easy forever.

Really, if you can get clubs to let you use LiPo against NiMH, we should actually be hoping it doesn't catch on and take over too fast, because racers won't "ruin" it with their tricks quite so fast.
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