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Old 03-28-2007, 12:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civiceg
so that means lipo=? nimh=? sorry im new to electric
LiPo will give you ruoghly 30-40% higher runtimes then a NiMh of the same capacity. Wlecome to electric.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:15 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning
"There's no Voodoo with Lipo's"......the heck there isn't. I can change the discharge characteristics of a fully charged pack very easliy. Just takes a little time. Doesn't involve charging or discharging. I'll prep your pack and mine. Wanna race? This point is so naive.

"Lipo's last 100 times longer than NiMh". Not in my experience with two different brands of Lipo's.
Would you care to explain this amazing technique that nobody else has managed to find including those that make the cells themselves?

If it involved rewiring the cells then you have missed the point entirely.

If it involves temperatures this is not a sound solution as the advantage are marginal if any and inconsistant at best.

If it involved re-engineering the cells then you sure should start a LiPo matching company you could be the first and maybe make thousands plus I am sure companies like Duracell and Energizer will soon be beating down your door.

Ii it is something that makes you much faster then everyone else in racing then I will contact the powers that be and have them prep your trophy because you will have an advantage that no other has.
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Old 03-28-2007, 12:19 PM   #33
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Yes, we race with both brushless and Lipo being legal in all classes. In stock you can run a 13.5 or 27t brushed and also either nimh or Lipo. The big difference in performance is most of the time the 13.5 is faster than the 27t brushed.

As for Lipos, stick with the Orion/Peak 3200/4800 packs. Unlike the cheaper packs that have no case etc. the Orion/Peak packs are tough. And between myself and a friend we have over 200 cycles easy on our 4800s and they work flawless. Not even a tiny drop in performance. They are awesome.
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:52 PM   #34
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I have a 4800 orion pack now and I was wondering what differences I would notice if I picked up a 3200 carbon pack. Besides runtime of course. Is there an advantage from the extra mah? I plan on racing only so long bash times are not needed. This will be used for offroad brushless.
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Old 03-28-2007, 03:18 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashedmaxx
I have a 4800 orion pack now and I was wondering what differences I would notice if I picked up a 3200 carbon pack. Besides runtime of course. Is there an advantage from the extra mah? I plan on racing only so long bash times are not needed. This will be used for offroad brushless.
If there is no weight rule in your class, the 3200 Lipo is lighter than the 4800 Lipo that is lighter than a 3800 or 4200 NIMH. A 4800 will give you longer run time that is good for say mod or endurance racing but if you are running stock or 19T with no weight minimum then the 3200 LIPO would be your best bet. Also, a 3200 Lipo is smaller in size than a 4800 so it can fit easier in most chassis.
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Old 03-28-2007, 04:29 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civiceg
chekout maxamps.com i wonder if theres any other company that has saddle packs?
Thanks civiceg
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Old 03-28-2007, 04:34 PM   #37
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MR Jolly, any chance we could get a picture of your 04 with the lipo in it?
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Old 03-28-2007, 05:15 PM   #38
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[QUOTE=MrBlack]Would you care to explain this amazing technique that nobody else has managed to find including those that make the cells themselves?

If it involves temperatures this is not a sound solution as the advantage are marginal if any and inconsistant at best.

QUOTE]


You got it. Temperature. Let me put your pack in a cooler for a while, and I'll heat mine up. HUGE difference in performance. It's easy to heat up NiMh because of the constant current peak charge method. Can't do it as easily with the lipo constant voltage charge. Everybody is going to have a heating pad of some sort with lipos go get them up to temp prior to racing. Do you really think that this isn't going to happen? Go run a pack that's at 50F, then heat one up to 100F and see for yourself. Marginal and inconsistent, not hardly. Very real.

Not that it matters, but I used to work at a Military/Aerospace lithium primary battery manufacturer in R&D. Was 10 years ago now, but I've been around lots of batteries.
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Old 03-28-2007, 05:49 PM   #39
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[QUOTE=Manning]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
Would you care to explain this amazing technique that nobody else has managed to find including those that make the cells themselves?

If it involves temperatures this is not a sound solution as the advantage are marginal if any and inconsistant at best.

QUOTE]


You got it. Temperature. Let me put your pack in a cooler for a while, and I'll heat mine up. HUGE difference in performance. It's easy to heat up NiMh because of the constant current peak charge method. Can't do it as easily with the lipo constant voltage charge. Everybody is going to have a heating pad of some sort with lipos go get them up to temp prior to racing. Do you really think that this isn't going to happen? Go run a pack that's at 50F, then heat one up to 100F and see for yourself. Marginal and inconsistent, not hardly. Very real.

Not that it matters, but I used to work at a Military/Aerospace lithium primary battery manufacturer in R&D. Was 10 years ago now, but I've been around lots of batteries.
Does this affect cycle life significantly? Do you have any data regarding the the safe and/or optimum operating temperature range?
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Old 03-29-2007, 12:40 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggles Paesan
MR Jolly, any chance we could get a picture of your 04 with the lipo in it?
yep
once i get my arse in gear ,i can take pic of it
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Old 03-29-2007, 01:10 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minicooper
Thanks civiceg
just

Last edited by civiceg; 01-02-2009 at 03:44 AM.
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Old 03-29-2007, 01:11 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
yep
once i get my arse in gear ,i can take pic of it
pictures pls mr jolly
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Old 03-29-2007, 03:21 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manning
You got it. Temperature. Let me put your pack in a cooler for a while, and I'll heat mine up. HUGE difference in performance. It's easy to heat up NiMh because of the constant current peak charge method. Can't do it as easily with the lipo constant voltage charge. Everybody is going to have a heating pad of some sort with lipos go get them up to temp prior to racing. Do you really think that this isn't going to happen? Go run a pack that's at 50F, then heat one up to 100F and see for yourself. Marginal and inconsistent, not hardly. Very real.

Not that it matters, but I used to work at a Military/Aerospace lithium primary battery manufacturer in R&D. Was 10 years ago now, but I've been around lots of batteries.
Hmmmm...I wonder if this is why you are finding a your batteries drop off in performance after only a few runs.
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Old 03-29-2007, 09:24 AM   #44
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Well, I think thats part of the point I and lots of others have tried to make.....

People will figure out ways to make the batteries perform better.......the companies will find ways to produce a better battery than the next guy......and usually in both cases, the sacrifice is durabability....and of course, in our quest for speed, we will all buy them.....

Right now, with the exception of Orion......you have a bunch of fly by night companies, along with a few plane companies offering packs to RC racers.....they have no interest in matching, zapping or whatever new technique is discovered......they aren't pushing these things to the limits......the top factory guys aren't using these at big events, just simply testing them on the track to see if they work.

If they ever become the normal......look for racers and companies to look at every possible way to squeeze more performance out of them....they will find it, as even the top companies (duracell, energizer, etc) will tell you not all batteries are created equal...regardless of what tech is being used.

Case in point.....remember when NimH came out.....we were promised no memory, less self discharge, no need to peak them, etc, etc.......well, I call BS now on all of those....

And now simply scroll up and read from a racer who says he found a way to get more from his........don't worry, the game has just started, there will be more.

Later EddieO
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Old 03-29-2007, 10:31 AM   #45
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The real LiPo advantage is cost, weight & easy of use.

In my experience a new 4200 provides better power and is slightly faster than my Orion3200 LiPo packs. I would say my LiPos are on par with 4200s that have dropped off to what I would consider acceptable for a club race (about 2 months old) but not a regional or any real race. Some of the LiPo's performance deficiency can be offset by its significant weight reduction providing you can still balance the car without adding all the weight back in.

Simply put at a big event LiPo packs have not reached a level where they would be competitive at a big event.

For occasional & club race only guys LiPo is however the best way to go.

Where LiPo shines is in its reduction of needed equipment & # of batts. A decent LiPo charger costs about 1/2 that of a comparable NiMh charger, you don't need a discharger and should you feel an equalizer is necessary they cost less than those used for NiMh batts and can be used while charging. The use of LiPo can also reduce the # of packs you need because you no longer have to discharge them fully or allow them to cool before charging them back up. I replaced the 3 NiMh packs I used to take to club races with 1 LIPo and see the same track time I did before.

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