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-   -   should the 13.5 brushless be ran in a stock brushed class (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/154463-should-13-5-brushless-ran-stock-brushed-class.html)

formerpro4 03-16-2007 02:57 PM

should the 13.5 brushless be ran in a stock brushed class
 
well i would like to hear everybody pro's and con's to this topic, because it has become a heated debate here at my local track and i would like to be able to make an informed desicion

KyLayfield 03-16-2007 02:59 PM

No.

Matt Howard 03-16-2007 02:59 PM

No, with the bonded rotor it is a bit faster, as soon as the sintered rotor is installed it is noticably faster.

syndr0me 03-16-2007 03:06 PM

In the clubs? Absolutely yes. At big races? No, unless you call it the 13.5 class and allow 27T brushed to run with them.

/thread

CShearburn 03-16-2007 03:13 PM

Some of it would depend on the size of the track also. Smaller low-end oriented tracks tend to favor the brushless even more than it would at a larger more flowing track. The 13.5 gets most of its speed over a 27t with the torque off the turns. Then add the efficiency on batts at the end of the race and there will be a noticeable advantage (this all comes from the expereince I have with seeing both run not only at the same event, but also run together locally)

For a local track it shouldn't be that big of a deal to combine them until you can get enough to split them into their own class. We've done it here at our track with decent success.

formerpro4 03-16-2007 03:18 PM

the track this would be done on is a large flowing asphalt road course.
we have several fast local drivers and also several pro/semi pro drivers race with us as well. we were thinking that a pro/semi pro stong brushed stock motor should be compairable to a local fast guy with a brushless motor

dodgeguy 03-16-2007 03:38 PM

The pro driver will have driving advantage. For club racing the 13.5 makes so much sense to use. You can sell the lathe esc and motors and turn around and buy a 13.5 brushless.

Is this at the Mountwood track? I do hope they run a 13.5 class. Us over in Dayton will be running 13.5

syndr0me 03-16-2007 03:53 PM

The other option is to run them as two separate classes. We've got too many classes already, and adding another would further dilute the racing population. That should be avoided. So, here's the math:

Brushless motors are good for racing. (GOOD +1)
Less classes is good for racing. (GOOD +1)
The 13.5 is slightly faster than a brushed stock. (BAD -1)
They're close enough for club racing. (OKAY +.5)

So...

1 + 1 - 1 + .5 = GOOD 1.5

Run them togethter.

fred kellner 03-16-2007 04:26 PM

I wish they could run together, but the 13.5 is .5th's faster than a brushed motor. The 13.5's just have a lot more rip and are tough to beat with a brushed motor. The poor drivers with a 13.5 are a lot closer to the good drivers when they used brushed, but put a 13.5 in the hands of a good driver and they will destroy the bad drivers. They need to have a seperate classes.

The 10.5 on the other hand is very close to the 19t brushed motor so I think they could be run together.

Goggles Paesan 03-16-2007 04:30 PM

If it will get more people to race, I say do it. Carpet racing has such a huge learning curve as it is, if this will make a part of it easier then why not. If the speed is an unfair advantage start the brushless guys half a lap down to make up the difference. :tire: If they are as fasty as some say then it will be a non issue. Just my 2 cents

formerpro4 03-16-2007 04:31 PM

yes this option is being disscussed for mountwood

trilerian 03-16-2007 05:49 PM

Novak did a really good job with the 13.5. Is it comparable to a stock motor? Yes, absolutely yes, the problem is; it is comparable to a well tuned stock motor, not the ones we get from the motor guys, but the ones the sponsored drivers get. I call it the problem but really is it? I would venture a guess that about 90% of stock racers have never had a really fast stock motor in their car, so I can see how people think the the 13.5 is .5 seconds a lap faster than their other motors.

fred kellner 03-16-2007 06:23 PM

It is really hard to make a point on R/C tech with people who are slow or don't know anything about racing. There is one race I know of that has run brushed and 13.5 in the same race. At the Novak race at Trackside hobbies both ran rubber tires, and if you look at the results you can see how much faster the lap times are for 13.5's. The pro's are not faster because they have special motors and batteries. They are faster because they are the best drivers around. The 13.5 won't level the playing field, the fast guys will always win because they are better drivers.

fast-ho-cars 03-16-2007 06:34 PM

it really depends on the class your running and probably drivetrain efficiency plays a factor. at our track we run sedan, 12th road and 10th pan oval.

in foam sedan we have run the 13.5 (with original rotor) along side 27T equipped cars. wins are traded back and forth...had no problems/complaints

no one has tried one in 12th racing, this is because no one wants to kill the class and this is based on the results seen below in 1/10th pan.

in 1/10th pan oval the first time the original rotor 13.5 run, they blew away the track record by 2 laps and 3 the following week. we have a sponsored driver that runs 27T stock, he can't touch it. for other 27T's, they can't even get 4 laps of the original 13.5

as for the Pro 13.5 with sintered rotor....? i think for the 13.5, the difference will be greater over a 27T brushed motor. our track record went from 82 laps in 5-min to 86 in the 4300/10.5 class when the sintered rotor was allowed.

in 1/10 pan car 4300 (original) and 19T used to run together. when the 4300 guys were allowed to run the first upgrade rotor, a 19T was competitive in a 4-min race but not 5-min. once the sintered rotor was allowed, no one dares run a 19T.

Skiddins 03-16-2007 07:09 PM


Originally Posted by trilerian
Novak did a really good job with the 13.5. Is it comparable to a stock motor? Yes, absolutely yes, the problem is; it is comparable to a well tuned stock motor, not the ones we get from the motor guys, but the ones the sponsored drivers get. I call it the problem but really is it? I would venture a guess that about 90% of stock racers have never had a really fast stock motor in their car, so I can see how people think the the 13.5 is .5 seconds a lap faster than their other motors.

My local club has a good number of UK National level drivers and we have started allowing 13.5 from this winter.
When the track is dry it is clearly that bit quicker, not a huge amount but enough to probably ruin our summer championship by seperating out the performance differences too much.

Interesting that I have been told about a certain manufacturer releasing a 15.5 stock equivalent while 13.5 is their 23t stock equivalent.

Skiddins


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