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Old 04-06-2007, 09:21 AM   #121
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since brushless is the futre(which i agree) should the companies get together and make all the motors (13.5's) the same so the races have a choice to run LRP, Tekin, Peak/orion, Novak brushless motors... or have they already done that.. i know at my local track if i were to run brushless 13.5 i have to run novak ONLY... but i'm a LRP fan and will run LRP brushless in mod..

just curious b/c i know bullfrog has been testing for novak and just wondered if you have heard anything about the companies making them all the same??

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Old 04-06-2007, 09:33 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty2802
since brushless is the futre(which i agree) should the companies get together and make all the motors (13.5's) the same so the races have a choice to run LRP, Tekin, Peak/orion, Novak brushless motors... or have they already done that.. i know at my local track if i were to run brushless 13.5 i have to run novak ONLY... but i'm a LRP fan and will run LRP brushless in mod..

just curious b/c i know bullfrog has been testing for novak and just wondered if you have heard anything about the companies making them all the same??

Thanks,
-DC-
Personally I think if the motors are close enough in equivalence, may as well run them together.
We will just have to be a little more open to the class if thats what it takes?
Kinda like P2K pro vs. Monster motor.
LRP has a new system, affordable and stock.
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Old 04-06-2007, 10:06 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UN4RACING
Slow is the opposite direction of racing.
If you want more racers, more future competition, more technology growth, more hobby shops and race tracks to choose from, then you will learn to consider what the new racers need. Today's "Stock" motor speeds are faster than modified motors of year past. The "Stock" speeds keep going up, and it too fast for new racers.

I think everyone should read this post by Chuck Kimbrough, the owner of Kimbrough Products.

Quote:
Thousands of people buy competitive R/C racing cars kits every year, but only a few hundred stay with the hobby very long. The reason it doesn't grow is the high drop out rate. If you happen to run into an ex-R/C car racer, ask them why they quit. The answer I hear the most is, "the cars got too fast and it took too much time and money to be competitive".
-Chuck Kimbrough
Brushless is certainly going to help with the "too much time" objection, but the speed issue is still there for new racers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
That testing was done with the bonded rotor, right? Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE fan of the 13.5, and would rather practice alone than race brushed motors again, but the sintered rotor is really what changed things. I'd be interested to hear how a 14.5 sintered would do. Alas, it's probably too late now, I have a feeling the 13.5 is here to stay.
Yes, no doubt that testing must have been with the bonded rotors. All future bonded rotor testing should stop for 2 main reasons:
#1. Sintered is the better technology.
#2. If a club decides on racing a certain bonded motor, inevitably, there will always be racers who think someone is cheating by putting a sintered rotor in.

My suggestion is for Novak to release another sintered rotor motor that puts out 130Watts of power to match that of today's 27T brushed motors.
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Old 04-06-2007, 10:12 AM   #124
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Here's what I can tell you. Yes the orginals were all tested with the bonded rotor. After the decision was made that the 13.5 was the stock motor I was given a sintered rotor.Yes I'm running a bigger pinion than a bonded rotor and I'm still getting beat by stock motors.The sintered Rotor is the way to go with the novak motor.I've got three new bonded rotors because after overheat them they loose there magnetism.
At they same time I contacted two other companies about the stock versious . One I'm still waiting for the call back- althought I believe they have just come out with one. The other company at the time waitied to do the mods first and later do a stock. Now they to are going to have a stock out in afew months.
I as well as most of you see everyone coming out with more and more brushless motors.Next the ESC need to catch up but that's another story.Since this is a new motor for use every manufacturer will come up with their version. Each one will be new and improved - just like the brushed motors. Look at the motors from a few years ago - are the faster now than just a few years ago, YES. It's just the way it is.The sooner you face the music about the motors the better. Look at batteries next.
Brushless will spoil all those brushed drivers by not having to spend time working on your motors. Instead you can tell more stories about how great a driver you are in the pits!
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Old 04-06-2007, 10:25 AM   #125
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You are doing something wrong if you are running the sintered 13.5 and getting beat by stock brushed racers. Our results at our track confirm Novak's chart concerning the 13.5 with sintered generating a massive 195 Watts of power.

As for motors getting more efficient and better in the future, I'm all for it. However, you can't expect to force a new racer into modified speeds. There still needs to be slower motors/classes for them to participate in.

I wish ROAR would step up and start classifying by motor power @ 7.2V. Example:
Spec class: 100 Watts of power or less
Stock class: 150 Watts of power or less
Super Stock: 200 Watts of power or less
Modified: Unlimited Watts of power

This way, you can mix and match any types of motors, from any manufacturer, and any future types of technology.
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Old 04-06-2007, 10:54 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James35
You are doing something wrong if you are running the sintered 13.5 and getting beat by stock brushed racers. Our results at our track confirm Novak's chart concerning the 13.5 with sintered generating a massive 195 Watts of power.

That's funny cause i recall u getting beat every week by a brushed motor. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:23 AM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNum74
That's funny cause i recall u getting beat every week by a brushed motor. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
If you read my post, you'd see that I said the 13.5 with a "sintered" rotor. I've never been beat by a stock brushed motor when running a 13.5 with sintered. The 13.5 with sintered rotor has a lot more power: 195Watts.
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:26 AM   #128
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bullfrog.. makes since...

Thanks,
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:48 AM   #129
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That's great that you've never been beaten by a brushed motor.To me racing the motor I've got I'm still trying new things and if I lose it's no big deal to me.A few months ago I pulled over to let another racer finish before me.That was at one of our state races.Besides I don't get to race on a regular basis anymore and it showed the last state race.
I raced again some of the best in Florida with both rotors.And watched others race the brushless motors.This is still new to everyone and they will get faster over time.Again that's technology and it's changing all the time.Now if you think that by coming on here your going to change that- good luck. Brushless is it.Until you can use the power the motor has on the track and stay out of traffic and backmarkers a number of what watts a motor has does not make any difference.What shows up on a dyno does not win races!Driving and staying out of trouble does.
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Old 04-06-2007, 12:29 PM   #130
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Well lets see. Even with your sintered rotor you still have not gone faster then the record held by a BRUSHED motor. Face it. Motor is not the problem. Car and driver are.
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Old 04-06-2007, 12:37 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James35
If you read my post, you'd see that I said the 13.5 with a "sintered" rotor. I've never been beat by a stock brushed motor when running a 13.5 with sintered. The 13.5 with sintered rotor has a lot more power: 195Watts.
i think that you will get beat by the driver not the motor
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Old 04-06-2007, 12:52 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNum74
Well lets see. Even with your sintered rotor you still have not gone faster then the record held by a BRUSHED motor. Face it. Motor is not the problem. Car and driver are.
Well, I never said I was a great driver like Billy Kimpton (record holder). I definately need to improve my driving skills, and I'm making steady progress. I have tried the sintered rotor only a few times, because on our biggest race night (Wednesday), most racers made a "gentle man's" agreement to stick with the bonded rotors because the sintered is so fast (at least until the end of the season).

But the sintered rotor is clearly faster as seen by the results of all the racers who have used it at our track. Billy crushed the brushed and bonded record by 3 laps the first time he tried the sintered. Billy even matched the 1/12th 19T record with a 13.5 (sintered). Brian also crushed his personal best by 4 laps when he switched from brushed 27T to 13.5 (sintered). There is no doubt that the 13.5 sintered has serious power.
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Old 04-06-2007, 01:11 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeNum74
Well lets see. Even with your sintered rotor you still have not gone faster then the record held by a BRUSHED motor. Face it. Motor is not the problem. Car and driver are.
True but given equal cars and drivers the sintered 13.5 is faster 100% of the time.
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Old 04-06-2007, 01:18 PM   #134
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Indeed. Additionally, we even allowed the brushed racers to put ball bearings in their motors. We also kept the minimum weight at a very low 32oz to help the lighter brushed racers even more. Most of us brushless 1/12th oval racers weigh in at a hefty 36oz+.
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Old 04-06-2007, 01:24 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
At Trcr (Off-road) they combine both designs together for club nights with no ill effects...


works very well having just one stock class ...
Ummmm no, their have been ill effects

on our last track layout the only racers clearing the center triple jump in the 27 turn stock class were the 13.5's All the rest of us would have to go double/single... the 13.5's held a huge advantage during the first few weeks of layout. A few of us said some stuff and some of the 13.5 racers volantarily de-geared the motors and adjusted to the double/single of the rest of us.

I dont care much on a weekly club basis. Run whatever together. Im there to pull the trigger, but I'd be pissed to be running with 13.5's in a race that mattered.
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