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Old 03-20-2007, 06:08 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour
I don't know what type of racing you are referring to about running the 13.5 motor in STOCK, but if it's a STOCK CLASS and somebody shows up with a 13.5 I would bitch moan and complain...cause a 13.5 motor should kick the crap out of ANY stock motor.
I was speaking specifically about 12th scale roadcourse on carpet. When I said racing 12th scale I imply roadcourse because I don't consider oval "racing"

Seriously though...the decision was made to run stock brushless and brushed together and there really hasn't been much grubling. Only really people saying, "Next week (season or month) I'll pick up a brushless system of my own." And the grumbling we have heard we've just ignored. It's been good for racing here.
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Old 03-20-2007, 07:35 AM   #92
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Default Stock brushless

I ran with Bullfrog last weekend in the FL state series race and running the brushless was different. I liken it to the difference between riding a two or a four stroke motorcycle. The power curve and delivery is just plain different. I found it to be okay across the board, but not stellar in any given aspect. I really need to see it's potential in the hands of an accomplished driver. It has helped transition the two types of motors running together, especially since brushed drivers placed 1st and 2nd, they don't feel threatened by the new stuff. Hopefully as more begin running BL motors, we'll figure it out even more and it will be readily accepted. I need smaller spurs and bigger pinions.
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Old 03-20-2007, 09:32 AM   #93
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I know a lot of you guys who go both ways...don't consider roundy round racing...but the ONE thing that always rises to the top in OVAL racing is SPEED.

We don't look for .10's of a second...we look for .01's because on a short bullring track where we can run 3 second laps or faster a .01 per lap makes a HUGE difference over a 90+ lap race.

For example one of the guys testing the waters for us in searching for the perfect STOCK replacement class to use a B/L and LiPo's ran the Crawler 18.5 motor this past weekend... IT'S STILL TOO FAST compared to 4 cell STOCK. At this track, 4 cell stock runs times in the 5.0 - 5.1 range for the fast guys... The 18.5 was about to go 4.6's - 4.7's right out of the box (51 laps vs. 47 laps) in a 4 minute run.

We've still got some other things on the table thanks to Charlie and the NoVAK crew...
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:59 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goggles Paesan
Lets try this again. When a reply is given please include. Notice I said PLEASE.

Where do you race at?

What is the turn out for Stock sedan? Not Mod or offroad.

How many run brushed?

How many run 13.5 Brushless?

I tried the 13.5 in Stock, am the only one to in Onroad I used a TA05, and I am now back to a brushed stock. The Brushless was a pain to gear right, felt too unstable particularly entering into corners, lack of brakes, and even upgrading to a sintered rotor didn't help, if anything it slowed the car down and I couldn't gear the TA05 hard enough to get my speed back!

My lap times with a CO27 Brood motor are 0.6 seconds better than the SS13.5

(from 18.1 to 17.5)
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:21 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxus
I tried the 13.5 in Stock, am the only one to in Onroad I used a TA05, and I am now back to a brushed stock. The Brushless was a pain to gear right, felt too unstable particularly entering into corners, lack of brakes, and even upgrading to a sintered rotor didn't help, if anything it slowed the car down and I couldn't gear the TA05 hard enough to get my speed back!

My lap times with a CO27 Brood motor are 0.6 seconds better than the SS13.5

(from 18.1 to 17.5)

Hi Nexxus,

Just a few thoughts...

Did you overheat the original rotor while you were having problems gearing it?

Did you possibly damage the windings in the can when you installed the sintered rotor?

Either condition would make the 13.5 slower.

My 13.5 is a rocket...Makes my prepared C027s seem slow. 13.5 is still performing great near the end of a 5 minute run which is a HUGE advantage over brushed. Generally, I have never exceeded 145 F degrees after a run. What temps have you hit?

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Old 03-21-2007, 12:28 AM   #96
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Highest temp I ever got was 138

Motor is fine in a Buggy, very quick

Just not suited to a TA05!
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:15 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxus


Just not suited to a TA05!


Aaah ! C-On !
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:28 AM   #98
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Default speed of 13.5

The new 13.5 pro stock with the sintered rotor is noticeably faster than a co27. I have tried both in the same car, and speed isn't that close. Because of the difference in power delivery, the co27 is easier to power into a corner and come out. The 13.5 also only gets warm at the end of the run, where the co27 is hot. The 13.5 sintered is between a 19t and co 27, closer to the 19t than the co27.

You have to gear the motor right, or it doesn't have any speed and runs hotter than when it is geared right. I also went up 6 pinion teeth from the co27 gearing.

Last edited by billjacobs; 03-22-2007 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 04-04-2007, 05:16 PM   #99
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Well, we run the 19t and 13.5 together. The brushless is a touch off a highly tuned 19t, but better than a poorly tuned one. Only problem we have had is posible overgearing, we found it much taller that stock, acutally close to our silver can class around 5.1 - 5.6.
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Old 04-05-2007, 07:41 AM   #100
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One of our club members started this thread. I want to thank everyone for your input. We appreciate the broad input from many tracks. It was a major factor in our club decision.

Our club will start running these 3 separate regular weekly classes outdoors
- Brushless stock (Novak 13.5)
- stock class (regular class, brushed motors)
- sportsman (novice, any stock or RTR, BR or BL, max 16 laps in 5:10)

The novice (sportsman) class had some of our turnouts this winter !!!

We normally have plenty of turnout to fill up all three classes. But if turnout is less than 10 cars total BR and BL, we may combine classes that day only.

We will also be running mod and 19T classes based on turnout (4 makes class)

PS we're also starting with LIPO allowed in mod classes, Orion/Peak 3200/4800 only to start with.
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Old 04-05-2007, 03:09 PM   #101
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since most no one likes the 13.5, I will be glad to buy them at a discounted price, so you guys can go buy a bunch of brushes for your CO's....lol.....my opinion, the 13.5 (new one) is clearly faster than a brushed stock (and I dont care who builds it)
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Old 04-05-2007, 03:37 PM   #102
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in UK at or WLRC track the 13.5 has been run up against 27T for a winter series.

BL 13.5 had the acceleration of a 19T and the top speed is only a little more.

its the pull out of a corner that makes the difference. so i have been told.

also rumour has it that the 13.5 is to compete against the 23T in japan and other countries......nosram and lrp are releasing the 15.5 more inline with stock i hear.


13.5 has a power outpur of 160 watts, most i ever see from a 27T is 125ish
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Old 04-05-2007, 05:39 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mi2dude
in UK at or WLRC track the 13.5 has been run up against 27T for a winter series.

BL 13.5 had the acceleration of a 19T and the top speed is only a little more.

its the pull out of a corner that makes the difference. so i have been told.

also rumour has it that the 13.5 is to compete against the 23T in japan and other countries......nosram and lrp are releasing the 15.5 more inline with stock i hear.


13.5 has a power outpur of 160 watts, most i ever see from a 27T is 125ish
That actually brings up something I think we should explore here, as far as mixing brushed & brushless goes, & that's running 13.5 Pros along with 23 turn brushed motors. I've seen & tested a couple of Tamiya's 23 turn motors & they look pretty darn strong(very good torque, much like the 13.5 shows in a car), I'd really like to see someone try them together in the same cars on the same night & look at both the cars ontrack & also at the laptimes, I suspect they'd be VERY close(could make for an interesting ProStock class of sorts)....
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Old 04-05-2007, 07:16 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mi2dude
13.5 has a power outpur of 160 watts, most i ever see from a 27T is 125ish
Actually, to be more precise, the 13.5 with a bonded rotor generates 165 Watts of power. The 13.5 with a sintered rotor generates 195 Watts of power.

And yes, I'd agree that a well tuned 27T brushed motor generates up to 130 Watts. So much for Novak's attempt at a brushed stock "equivalent".

I'd like to see Novak make another brushless motor with sintered rotor produce 130 Watts. This 195 Watts is getting rediculous. At our local race track, the 1/12th oval 19T and the Brushless Stock (13.5 w/sintered) records are currently identical at 67 laps!
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Old 04-05-2007, 07:55 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James35
This 195 Watts is getting rediculous. At our local race track, the 1/12th oval 19T and the Brushless Stock (13.5 w/sintered) records are currently identical at 67 laps!
And yet some people still insist that the 13.5 should be run with stock 27T motors.
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