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Old 03-17-2007, 07:56 AM   #46
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I would say yes run the 27t brush with the 13.5 bl. especially for a local club race. I ran my 13.5 at a local track with the stock guys and our lap times were very comparable. My local track runs 19t along with the 4300 and 5800 bl and just have a ball racing each other no sense in turning a racer away for a club race.

This weekend our state race the master's class will have 13.5 and stock motors running together so we'll be seeing how that turns out. Check out Florida racing thread on here.
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Old 03-17-2007, 08:45 AM   #47
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This is all very good info. Keep it coming.

From what I have tested it is the same or even a little slower for me. I have yet to get close to my fastest lap or within 2 laps of my best with the 13.5 but then that is me and I have only ran it a total of 5 weekends. I think that the results are going to be different from person to person but the 13.5 is not going to make you an overnight RC wonder if you are just starting out as a novice. Then when it comes to the 13.5 only being .5 different per lap than a stock motor, I wish my laps were consistant enough to tell that. LOL
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Old 03-17-2007, 09:16 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedybill
The problem 'locally' appears to be the high 'INTIAL' cost of going brushless, and I'm more than well aware of the 'ongoing' cost of running brushed motors
tit 4 tat
BUT, they are NOT equal!
so you force the brushed driver to shell out $$ to upgrade to brushless,
is this fair???

we [ovrccc] have a LOT of new drivers who are just getting into the sport [rtr TC-4's] and now we tell them to be competitive they need to spend MORE than what they paid for the car to keep up????

I have to post this since this presented itself while I was at your shop last night. We have a local newbie racer that wants to get into building stock motors because he feels he is ready to be faster and really is interested in the rebuilding aspect of stock motors. He has the money to buy a lathe. When he asked what lathe he should buy I told him what the options were in his price range. Sounds good right, well wait. He does not have a power supply, charger or dyno to run lathe or the tools to work on the motor. So first he will have to buy a decent power supply, then a charger or dyno to run the lathe, then the lathe itself and all this just to tune a motor. He also just recently bought a gts speed control $80. Now you take all that and add it up and you show him the price of a GTB and 13.5 brushless and I guarantee if it were allowed in stock classes he would buy the brushless in a heart beat. So the cost thing is really irrelevant. I will agree it may be faster or slower or whatever it is, but that is the exact thing we deal with every weekend with brushed. There is not one brushed motor that is the same. 13.5 on the other hand are almost all exactly the same. If everyone were to get one then the motor and battery war would be a thing of the past then it would just come down to driving.
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Old 03-17-2007, 09:31 AM   #49
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i really appriciate everybodys input on this subject.

and like the sand of time these are the days of our lives lol
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Old 03-17-2007, 09:58 AM   #50
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Talking

as the transmitter turns!!!
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:05 AM   #51
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lol that ones better bill
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:06 AM   #52
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Default 13.5 VS CO27'S

In my opinion when the 13.5 with the bonded rotor came out it was close to a C027's equal. Now that people are using the sintered rotor in the 13.5's it allows a distinct advantage compared to a good C027 motor.

I ran a bonded 13.5 in Omaha earlier and was racing against cars with sintered rotors in their 13.5's I did not have enough punch and top end was lacking also.
Hobbyplex did a survey all A-main Stock Rubber drivers were sintered if I was told correctly and one one C027 in the B-Main.
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:21 AM   #53
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Just thought I'd throw my two cents in on this. At our local track they run stock brushed and 13.5 brushless together in 1/12th scale. Most of the fast drivers still run brushed and consistently win, generally by a lap or two. Those who run brushless are the somewhat slower drivers. All the brushless motors have done is close the gap between them and the faster drivers. Once the faster drivers migrate over to brushless the gap will just widen back up. It just supports the fact that driving is still the most important part of this hobby.
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:26 AM   #54
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I agree with the fact that setup and driving will always win a race.

If your car will not carry corner speed and handle correctly it doesn't matter what motor you have in the car.
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:04 AM   #55
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I would like to know what the turn outs are for stock sedan at the tracks you race at please post the # of racers with your posts, (if you don't mind) reason being if the turnout is like the track I race at, 14 racers being a good night for carpet, you would allow anybody with anything in to race just to try to boost attendance. I should also mention that we have an indoor dirt track as well and their turnout is like 35 to 50 racers on a thirsday night. RC Excitement Fitchburg, MA. Its a great place to race.
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:11 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Howard
It's Novak that said the 13.5 should be equal to a stock motor, no one else, and they were wrong. If I read correctly LRP is coming out with a 15.5 motor that they say is equal to a stock motor and the LRP 13.5 motor is supposed to be equal to a 23T motor. I'm glad offroad season is upon us so I don't have to spend my money on different systems or motors before some concrete rules are in place.
the same was said about the 4300/10.5 when it first came out.

Matt, i heard that the Hobbyplex in Omaha was mixing them in 12th scale 27T/13.5 and 19T/4300-10.5. what are the results so far? i was told this from a sponsored driver from Texas who ran at the last big race at the Plex in Omaha. i beleive he got 3rd in the A in 27T. Although 27T's won, he said it was like running against slow 19T's. he said that if a better driver was running them, the 13.5 would have ruled.

15.5 ironic
Some racers that run at Allen's Raceway in Illinois tested Novak 14.5-16.5 motors in pan oval cars. when they came to our track, i overheard their comments when they were discussing the speed of the 13.5 over a 27T and that they felt the 16.5 was closer to a 27T in a 1/10 pan car (4-cells). they were also talking/considering the possibly using the Novak 18.5 in their spec class. that's when i mentioned the 18.5 costs more than the 13.5

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Old 03-17-2007, 11:16 AM   #57
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We really do appreciate all the real world comments and experiences. Please keep them coming. We want to make a smart decision.

It occurs to me that until I spent $120 on a lathe, $70 on a dyno, and $70 on a couple of good CO27 motors ($260) that I was behind 2 laps to everyone else. I caught up (to the average drivers) but now I've dropped back 2 laps again because I still drive a TC3 while most folks are moving to new belt cars and gaining 2 laps. A new (used) ride for me is $300 so who am I kidding. I think I've overrated the $$$ thing - there's no way too really run cheap in this hobby unless you run novice classes (we do) and I'm sorry but motors make little difference in that class until folks learn to drive well. I didn't believe that either when I started, but I was wrong.

Since at our track we split top drivers into "pro stock" (that's basically sponsorship level or above) it won't matter too much what we drive ! If we drive that much better in stock, we get "bumped up". I agree with the many comments that it's close enough. We should be flexible enough to open it up and I think we'll see an increase in class size when we do.

Has anyone seen brushless kill off attendance or has it gone up with brushless ?
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:20 AM   #58
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If you havn't ran brushless you have no reason to chime in.

I just started running brushless this year and can tell you my car has more rip from a dead start or a slow corner and more rip at the end of the straight however the guys with a GOOD brushed motor seem to pull me coming out of sweepers and high speed turns so that makes us about even. I've ran a brushed motor back to back with my brushless and noticed less than a .2 difference. But I'm not a prick gearing it to the moon either I like to keep things equal so I probably could go even faster. The reason I run brushless is because of less maintenance it allows me more time to focus on setup, and that has made me a lot faster. Not to mention the fact that I have a consistant speed and can learn to drive it better. I've had more fun with my brushless than ever before but people in my area don't seem to want to embrace the technology so I run with brushed guys. There are always a few whiners but most realize if they got beat its because I out drove them and vice versa.

Honestly if the track I raced at outlawed brushless in stock (our only class) I'd stop racing there. I'm not going back to brushed for club racing.

This of course does not apply to big races.
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:49 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GroffBall
If you havn't ran brushless you have no reason to chime in.
Sorry, wasn't sure if you meant me or someone else... I drive a Novak 4.5 in TC mod and offroad in my stadium truck and I love it.
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:54 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swopemike
Sorry, wasn't sure if you meant me or someone else... I drive a Novak 4.5 in TC mod and offroad in my stadium truck and I love it.
Wasn't refering to anyone in particular, but just in general. Even though you don't know about the 13.5 you can still speak as to the benefits of ease of maintenance. I've seen many beginers and people looking to get back into the hobby be turned off by all the motor maintenance. Where I race everybody has a dyno and lathe sitting out. Brushless just makes sense for everybody I see it as the only way to grow the hobby. Lipo is great and could help but Brushless simplifies things and makes it easier to focus on setup and driving.
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