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Old 04-07-2007, 04:02 AM   #151
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What you want to do at your local track is what you decide.Go into any hobby shop and they get every new racer to get what they ask for - a fast motor. They don't ask for a spec motor. That never enters there mind.Make your own local track rules post them and be prepared to bend some.Just face the music Brushless is here in 13.5 and it's only going to bigger and brushed smaller.Everyone is going off the subject -it's up to the local clubs and tracks to mqke there rules. ROAR allows this for club events.Most of you are bringing up the same subects everyone has talked about for years and just subsituted the new Brushless motors. spec class - slower cars for novice. That's up to the tracks.A hobbyshop is out to make money and if Brushless is the newest and greatest- guess what that's what they are selling.
The new guys can't handle the speed same story for years- They can't run with the local hot shots - it takes practice. Nowadays it takes practice and people want it instantly.As we all know it aint going to happen.
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Old 04-07-2007, 04:29 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by BullFrog
The new guys can't handle the speed same story for years- They can't run with the local hot shots - it takes practice. Nowadays it takes practice and people want it instantly.As we all know it aint going to happen.
Agreed
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:21 AM   #153
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I agree 100% Driver is 90% of the fast equation, brush or brushless, I have the fastest and great handling car in my class, it just doesn't have the best driver Oh.well,, maybe one day I'll get to be decent.
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:54 AM   #154
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I'm not the greatest driver and never have been.I've won races and lost.I've had the best equipment and average equipment.It does not matter.If I don't practice and is race day it shows- although the brain remembers that I could have done better if I practiced.Racing with my friends and fellow racers is better than working and that = fun regardless if I win or not.
Having protype equipment and testing it out is not always fun.Althought this is not the place I tell a story back few years ago. I had a great chassis in 1/10th pan cars. I was sent a new chassis and I was not under any pressure to try it.I ran it one time and parked it. It sat on the shelf for about 2 years.Went to a national and wanted to race in a class but the only chassis I had was the protype.I blitzed the B main competition from the 8th starting postion.I did this for three consecitive state races.The manufacture would not make the car.
Testing these brushless motors when I trying the first 0ne 14.5 I was getting passed everywhere( ran against brushed at a state race).Then I put the 12.5 in and did the same to the guys in my last qualifier and the main.When i got the 13.5 and thermoed at the following state race every qualifier and the main. We also run 6 minutes in stock.This happened at two state races. I then recieved a siniter rotor and did not and have not thermoed since.Also have not cut the com or had to mess with brushes and springs.I've got more time on my hand to do anything else I want to do.I'll take that any day win or lose.
In two weeks if off to another state race and I don't have to work on Sat- or Sunday except on my R/C car!
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Old 04-07-2007, 11:45 AM   #155
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Johnny9's said
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Couldn't we limit the rollout or FDR on a car for novice class?
LOL, but WHO's going to teach them how to calculate RoLL oUT


1/2 the long time racers I know can't figure it out on a DD Pan Car..and you can't get much easier than those.
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Old 04-07-2007, 01:08 PM   #156
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Johnny9's said


LOL, but WHO's going to teach them how to calculate RoLL oUT

That is part of the problem. I have noticed that the people who know the most about setups and racing are almost always too busy cutting comms and tweaking setups to teach the new drivers about our hobby.

The best thing we could do is to help the new racers who are overheating and overgearing there cars because they think that makes them faster. It took almost 6 months of racing before someone actually explained about gearing and ratios to me. People always just said use this pinion or that pinion but never took the time to explain why.

Brushless will hopefully allow people more time to give guidance to the new racers.
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Old 04-07-2007, 01:46 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Johnny9s
Brushless will hopefully allow people more time to give guidance to the new racers.
Good point Johnny. And I am trying to do just that with ALL this time on my hands. Seems to be working at NorCal Hobbies because we have a whole new group of new drivers over the past 2-3 months.
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Old 04-08-2007, 10:17 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by UN4RACING
I like the 23t-13.5 Idea If that were the pro stock it would open up 27t for the novice class. And One level before 19t for the novice to shoot for. I think the 23's have bearings as well as the 13.5's?
We don't need another class! The jump between stock and 19t isn't that big. Most of the hot shots in stock should be running 19t now, but they don't.



Brushless is coming, and coming hard. But, none of the sanctioning bodies have declared any rules as of yet. This is a great opportunity for them. ROAR and the other sanctioning bodies could get together and define what brushless stock should be. (In my opinion, it should be much slower than stock currently is.) There would be some pain felt by those racers who are stuck with only brushed motors, but these racers could be accommodated by the local tracks until such time as they can conform to the new rules for stock.

It's time ROAR, here is your chance to really make some very positive changes for the racers.
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Old 04-08-2007, 10:25 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpez
We don't need another class! The jump between stock and 19t isn't that big. Most of the hot shots in stock should be running 19t now, but they don't.

Brushless is coming, and coming hard. But, none of the sanctioning bodies have declared any rules as of yet. This is a great opportunity for them. ROAR and the other sanctioning bodies could get together and define what brushless stock should be. (In my opinion, it should be much slower than stock currently is.) There would be some pain felt by those racers who are stuck with only brushed motors, but these racers could be accommodated by the local tracks until such time as they can conform to the new rules for stock.

It's time ROAR, here is your chance to really make some very positive changes for the racers.
Pez for prez! Brushless is the future.
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Old 04-08-2007, 10:27 PM   #160
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I would be fine with "stock" going back to sealed-endbell motors...LOL That way "stock" would be "stock", not "27 turn modified"

Besides, the slower the car, the better the driver I am...if the car isn't moving at all, I could be a World Champion.

But yeah, 13.5 and 27t should run together. It seems like when they do, the really fast guys stay brushless and the rest go 13.5 and have more fun...which is what it's really all about (or should be). The fast guys still win, the rest of us have fun with less drama.
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:36 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Joe
the really fast guys stay brushless....The fast guys still win, the rest of us have fun with less drama.
mistype of the fast guys + brushless? lol
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:49 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Jake S
mistype of the fast guys + brushless? lol

Why yes...LOL...thank you for pointing that out. The fast guys stay BRUSHED...at least that's how it is around here.

For all the Sturm und Drang regarding the 27t vs. 13.5, and even with the LiPo added in, the results around this area don't seem to bear out the fact that either the 13.5 or LiPos are a dominant combination. Most of the local places tag them in the results when they combine classes and it doesn't seem like the brushless guys ever win. It'll be brushed, brushed, BL, BL, BL, BL, brushed, BL, BL.

It's pretty hardcore around here though. Your mileage may vary, as there are some FAST mf'ers around here.

I used to get my ass handed to me on the straights by "stock" motors when I was running a 4300 Novak. It was like that T-shirt -- "You must be one of the fast guys, because you were hauling ass when I passed you."
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Old 04-09-2007, 07:56 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpez
We don't need another class! The jump between stock and 19t isn't that big. Most of the hot shots in stock should be running 19t now, but they don't.



Brushless is coming, and coming hard. But, none of the sanctioning bodies have declared any rules as of yet. This is a great opportunity for them. ROAR and the other sanctioning bodies could get together and define what brushless stock should be. (In my opinion, it should be much slower than stock currently is.) There would be some pain felt by those racers who are stuck with only brushed motors, but these racers could be accommodated by the local tracks until such time as they can conform to the new rules for stock.

It's time ROAR, here is your chance to really make some very positive changes for the racers.
It would not be adding another class. 27t stock bushing, 23t pro stock bearing. I don't see the problem if they added 10 more classes thats just more choice for the ones who normally wouldn't show up, and if they don't bump the ones who did.
The pros are trying to get there with a stock 27t any way.
Although thats just a possible fix for now on a totally different subject.
I can only agree that with brushless new rules need to be made, but to avoid new classes it will be impossible. (as long as brushes are around). It is a great opportunity.
But I must say My son used to race with me and he quit because he said its just getting to serious. Hes wanting to do some dirt this summer and its the first sign of R/C racing from him in about 2 years. (Even with brushless lipo).

As for Turbo Joe I agree 100% Keep brushed going by it being just a touch faster mix them separate them what ever it takes.
I try to win but my true intent with brushless lipo is the ease and cost, efficiency no hassle no working at it fun, and I've had more time to share at the track, In all honesty we have a few racers at our track that I will never put in that much work to beat, FORGET IT! I'm a budget once a week guy with other priorities to spend my money on. I believe that keeping brushes going will also help keep the cost of brushless down as well. It will all come around on its own either way.

Brushless Lipo has made its mark........ But its yet to stake its claim.

Soon enough brushless lipo will have to take the gloves off.
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Old 04-09-2007, 08:15 AM   #164
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at my local track here in australia one 1 person has had a 13.5 stock brushless there was people kicking and screaming then they saw it on the track and i wasnt faster didnt launch quicker and no 1 cared after that granted the driver wasnt the best or fastest but every 1 agreed to let it run with the 27 stock brushed so now i will give it a go i aint the fastest but i am getting my consistance into the low .6 - .5 range so rather then jumping into mod as we donnt have 19 t i figured i would give bl stock a run to get used to the roll that you get with the bl motor rather then the drag from the brushed motors but i dont see why they shouldnt run together as long as the motor who ever makes it is comparable to a decent stock motor cos we all know how much the DO vary for a STOCK fixed timing motor

well theres my 2 cents
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Old 04-09-2007, 02:35 PM   #165
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NO.
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