R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-18-2007, 09:54 AM   #76
Tech Master
 
Ed237's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dudley PA
Posts: 1,431
Trader Rating: 10 (100%+)
Default

You might want to re-read this thread because you are pretty much telling me what I need to be doing and what equipment I need to buying. This is all about pushing Lipos through the system and beating down people who dissagree with you.

If the threads were about getting the most from your equipment in the safest possible way you would probably win more people over. But calling people dinosaurs, trolls or sheep if they disagree isnt going to get it done.
Ed237 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 10:11 AM   #77
Tech Fanatic
 
muahdib4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raymore
Posts: 863
Send a message via Yahoo to muahdib4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed237
You might want to re-read this thread because you are pretty much telling me what I need to be doing and what equipment I need to buying. This is all about pushing Lipos through the system and beating down people who dissagree with you.

If the threads were about getting the most from your equipment in the safest possible way you would probably win more people over. But calling people dinosaurs, trolls or sheep if they disagree isnt going to get it done.
Let's see, now I never said that but...we're telling people who CHOOSE to use LiPo, the safe way to do it and the equipment you need...not people who don't choose it. LiPo IS the future no matter what you might think, it WILL be legal if not next year then the year after. You don't have to change, I'm sure there's somebody out there still using NiCd batteries which are still legal but most chose the newer tech at the time...NiMh. People still using those would probably be called Dinosaurs by people using NiMh, especially if they refused to change...but that would be their decision. By troll he doesn't mean a TROLL, he means trolling threads that you don't agree with and attacking them, which you've done. Sheep are people who blindly follow which you also choose to do. Nothing wrong with that but we want to be on the forefront of change. Since you don't...don't TROLL threads that have nothing to do with what you support and attack them for not following what you perceive to be the be all, end all of rules and regulations. My track allows LiPo and the people are having a blast only having to buy 1 charger and 1 battery and going rather then all the maintenance that goes along with NiMh. That doesn't make us illegal or wrong for doing so. There are still people who use NiMh and run side by side with LiPo and are still having fun which is what racing is all about. If you feel slighted then I'm sure that wasn't the intention but you also don't belong on a thread discussing the future of RC racing when you choose to only look at the now. Like I said, don't change. Doesn't bother me but don't tell others they can't because you don't want to.
__________________
KCRC - Kansas City Remote Crawlers
Team Chucklenuts Racing
Midwest R/C Rally Confederation
KC/RC Drift Movement
muahdib4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 10:21 AM   #78
Tech Elite
 
Mr. Shookie's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Wilderness
Posts: 4,711
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Shookie Send a message via MSN to Mr. Shookie
Default

Everytime I run Bushless/Lipo I realize that I wish I did it sooner.
I still need Nimh, heck I don't even mind it. I race 12th scale pan and well. I don't think that class could handle that much weight loss...they are already light as it is. But for people to think that Lipo is unsafe. I say no, people are unsafe.
There are warnings on Nimh packs that warn against overcharging, overdischarging and over heating...At least EA, Promatch, SMC, and Brood post it right on there websites.
There will always be a horror story somewhere about Lipo.
Heck the Two freak fires in Laptops were attributed to Sony using a very inexpensive lipo manufacturer.
It will always be something that scares people.....I think that what is scaring all you Lipo haters is simply CHANGE......You love your brushes and NiMh, and you don't want say or think your gear is no longer needed...Heck I know I did, I still have two MM Cell masters, Motor master, and discharger that I only use for 12th scale, if I didn't race larger events and 12th I would sell them all right now.
I bought two Orion Advance Flight chargers for $65.00 each and two Orion Race Spec 3200 for $70 each thats $270. They will last me through this season and probably the next two before I need new packs.
I spent more last year that on brushes and springs.
Brushless is already gaining enough popularity that I know EA, EddieO, and the rest of the motor tuners will find a way to tune the brushless to get that little bit more out of them and heck I bet they are learning all they can about lipo/limg cells so they can offer great lithium packs too.

I will still support EA Motorsports as I still need his motor skills and Nimh for 12th and larger events. So no I am not throwing the kids out with the bath water but I do support change especially if it makes it easier for more people to come into or stay involved in R/C as if we don't, sooner rather than later you won't have anyone to race against.

Sidenote: I think all Lipo's should come with hard cases, like Laptops and cell phones it saves them from the simple punctures and rubbing. Even shrink wrap on NiMh get worn from rubbing...Just something that I believe would take another scare tactic away from lipo....If they all come like Orion/Peak than the chances of a puncture/rubbing causing a short would be greatly reduced.

OK OFF THE SOAP BOX I COME.
-Shookie <><
__________________
All who love the LORD JESUS I praise with you.1 Cor 10:31
Team HOLY Rollers (Team Manager)
The Church is a Hospital for Sinners not a Museum for Saints.
RcTech Feedback <>< RC Tech Subcriber #92
Mr. Shookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 11:23 AM   #79
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,588
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Here's a question: If your local track had a class exactly as you wanted it, (Lipo brushless, etc) but they still had classes for the current rules, would you be upset? If you had enough guys to run every week?
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 12:08 PM   #80
Tech Elite
 
EddieO's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,414
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Wow, these threads turn so nasty so quick...

LiPO is still in the infancy stages.....the Orion LiPo is by the best thing we have seen hit the market yet. It was the first fully tested product that came with saftey features (hard case, solid connection system, fail safe fuse) I am sorry, but the other companies in general are releasing some really shoddy products just to make a quick buck....

Lipos can be had from many sources at dirt cheap prices.....the more you pay, the better quality of a battery you get.

And like ALL batteries, there is always a tolerance.....ALWAYS. Don't try to say there is not, because there is. NASA spent millions in battery development for the mars rovers, just to make sure the batteries were as close as possible...if you do a search there is a huge article by duracell on how no two batteries are the same.....

I have spoken with two Lipo companies.....both companies have told me, if I want give up some durability.....they can get more voltage....and lower IR.....

Matching, zapping, or whatever the new process is called with a happen.....battery nerds like Danny or Oscar will figure out how to squeeze out that extra .001 volts.....and we will buy it.....

And then the you will save money on this and that.....cause LiPo doesn't need it......sorry, no go again. The reason you don't see it yet.....cause the market is way way to small with no rules by the sanctioning bodies on what tech we will even use....once they get to that point.....do you really think Orion, Novak, etc are going to sit there are not offer high end chargers, dischargers, etc? They will come, mark my words.....effective or not.....who knows. I ain't sold 85% of the dischargers out there work worth a crap either, but they still sell like hotcakes.....the new LipO ones will be no different....

Again I am all for LipO gaining legality at some point......but just don't be dillusional its going to save you tons of money on batteries or equipment.....and it certainly is not going to save racing. We heard all this same crap with NimH....we just didn't have everyone on the internet to argue about it. I am excited just for the fact I only need to match two cells instead of 4 or 6.....trust me, I am happy

One thing any Lipo fanatic has ever properly explained it what is done for 1/12th scale? Going back to 7+ volts will not work and there is simply NO way to get a 4.8 equal lipo cell.....so what is the fix there? Do we just kill 1/12th off? Do we just let them run NIMH still? Thus forcing racers to have to bring two sets of charging/dischargin equipment to the track.


LIPO will have its day.....just gain some patience and quit being so fanatic and shoving the tech down everyones throat.

Later EddieO
__________________
www.teambrood.com
EddieO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 02:30 PM   #81
Tech Champion
 
RCGaryK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 7,331
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA. This has gotten way off point here from the original question I posed, with people making attacks on others, their stance, etc. Lets try to reel the retorhic in a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
Not to mention the competitive aspects like lipo is lighter and the nominal voltage is higher (7.4V vs 7.2V).
Jim, this is the basis of my starting question is that the voltage of the 4200 is EXCEEDING 7.4 volts, and many on here have confirmed that the voltage of the 4200 is better than LiPos, at least at the start of a run. Additionally, if the minimum weight remains unchanged, what's the difference if the additional weight is in the battery or in lead ballast that you can move around? Sounds like a tuning aid to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
One thing any Lipo fanatic has ever properly explained it what is done for 1/12th scale? Going back to 7+ volts will not work and there is simply NO way to get a 4.8 equal lipo cell.....so what is the fix there? Do we just kill 1/12th off? Do we just let them run NIMH still? Thus forcing racers to have to bring two sets of charging/dischargin equipment to the track.
If you run 1/12th scale now, you have 2 different types of packs versus what you will for 1/10th scale. Plus, I believe the GFX now has the LiPo charge capability, the Orion Advantage does LiPo and NiMH, There are Much Moore Chargers that do both, Dynamite chargers that do both, and more. Plus 1/12th scale is such a small, niche class anyways that really only sees National popularity leading up to Cleveland and Snowbirds. Those who run 1/12th scale generally buy brand new cells before a large event or at the beginning of a season. Not to disparrage 1/12th scale drivers out there, but its irresponsible in some ways to hold off LiPo just for the sake of two classes, 1/12th mod and 1/12th stock.
__________________
Site Content Specialist- Surface
HorizonHobby.Com

Horizon Hobby is on YouTube with hundreds of different videos! Visit us at
http://www.youtube.com/HorizonRCdotCom
RCGaryK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 04:52 PM   #82
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,143
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

I apologize if the terms I use like "sheep" and "dinosaurs" are offensive. I'm simply using them to describe the attitude displayed by people in the hobby. Some people are reluctant to change because they like things how they are, and some people are content to follow along blindly and not question whether or not things can be done a better way. That's totally fine, we're all different. It's just a way to identify the different types of personalities we deal with not only in R/C, but just about anywhere in life.

Eddie is right that these things won't be the utopia some people make them out to be. There will still be battery and motor wars. That's always going to be the case, so we should learn to live with it and accept it as part of racing. That doesn't mean we can't work to improve other aspects of the hobby, like how much recurring work is required to keep our cars in racing form. That's the real benefit, not some false hope of perfectly level playing field.

If I have to polish my rotor between rounds to keep the motor running fast, that's still better than truing and rebrushing.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 05:30 PM   #83
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 223
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCGaryK
Not to disparrage 1/12th scale drivers out there, but its irresponsible in some ways to hold off LiPo just for the sake of two classes, 1/12th mod and 1/12th stock.
That is a pretty big disparagement if you ask me, especially since it isn't just 1/12th onroad, it also includes all 1/10th oval and some 1/18th classes. These may seem like niche markets to you, but at our track, 1/10th oval is hugely popular, and 1/12th outnumbers Touring Cars 2 to 1.

The LiPo technology may be the neatest, coolest and hottest stuff out there, but it doesn't meet the overall needs of our hobby at this time. The 3.7 volts per cell issue does not allow it to be flexible enough. Even if our radio equipment were able to run on just 3.7 volts, it isn't enough voltage with current brushed, or brushless technology. And like was mentioned earlier, going back to 7+ volts for the current 4-cell classes is not an option for many reasons. If LiPo could come up with a cell that produces something close to either 1.2 or 2.4 volts, then the acceptance is much more likely.

As for the other risks involved with LiPo, they are real. And I think it is a good idea that ROAR or any other sanctioning body take their time to understand those risks and ensure that proper rules are in place to ensure safety. Sure, NiMh and even NiCd batteries have blown up before and had other calamities befall them, but they don't burn like a road flare. If the new Orion batteries have not had a problem yet, that is great. It might be a good place for ROAR to start when defining rules when they are comfortable with their knowledge.
gotpez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 05:33 PM   #84
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 223
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I apologize if the terms I use like "sheep" and "dinosaurs" are offensive.
Offensive is the only way those terms CAN be taken. And based on your other posts throughout this site, you know that.

There are legitimate points on BOTH sides of this argument. Before LiPo can become a recognized technology, these concerns need to be dealt with. It's that simple.
gotpez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 05:35 PM   #85
Tech Fanatic
 
muahdib4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raymore
Posts: 863
Send a message via Yahoo to muahdib4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpez
That is a pretty big disparagement if you ask me, especially since it isn't just 1/12th onroad, it also includes all 1/10th oval and some 1/18th classes. These may seem like niche markets to you, but at our track, 1/10th oval is hugely popular, and 1/12th outnumbers Touring Cars 2 to 1.

The LiPo technology may be the neatest, coolest and hottest stuff out there, but it doesn't meet the overall needs of our hobby at this time. The 3.7 volts per cell issue does not allow it to be flexible enough. Even if our radio equipment were able to run on just 3.7 volts, it isn't enough voltage with current brushed, or brushless technology. And like was mentioned earlier, going back to 7+ volts for the current 4-cell classes is not an option for many reasons. If LiPo could come up with a cell that produces something close to either 1.2 or 2.4 volts, then the acceptance is much more likely.

As for the other risks involved with LiPo, they are real. And I think it is a good idea that ROAR or any other sanctioning body take their time to understand those risks and ensure that proper rules are in place to ensure safety. Sure, NiMh and even NiCd batteries have blown up before and had other calamities befall them, but they don't burn like a road flare. If the new Orion batteries have not had a problem yet, that is great. It might be a good place for ROAR to start when defining rules when they are comfortable with their knowledge.
Just so everyone is aware, on another LiPo thread someone from one of the battery companies or matchers (don't remember which) stated that a LiPo is in the works right now that will be suitable both size wise and voltage wise for 1/12th and Oval and will be in line with what's being run currently. So get ready...LiPo's coming for you too.
__________________
KCRC - Kansas City Remote Crawlers
Team Chucklenuts Racing
Midwest R/C Rally Confederation
KC/RC Drift Movement
muahdib4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 05:39 PM   #86
Tech Champion
 
RCGaryK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 7,331
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpez
That is a pretty big disparagement if you ask me, especially since it isn't just 1/12th onroad, it also includes all 1/10th oval and some 1/18th classes. These may seem like niche markets to you, but at our track, 1/10th oval is hugely popular, and 1/12th outnumbers Touring Cars 2 to 1..
No one has said you have to buy LiPo. For your market, NiMH is still the only viable option. But, in the overall view of the usage in the hobby, there are far fewer people who run 4-cell 1/12th scale and oval than what run 6-cell packs. From my understanding though, Li-Ion cells might be a viable option for the reduced voltage needed for 4-cells. Now, I'll also say that my preference for battery changes first would be for everything to go 4-cell. That's not realistically going to happen for some time unfortunately, so the 2nd option to me is LiPo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpez
Sure, NiMh and even NiCd batteries have blown up before and had other calamities befall them, but they don't burn like a road flare.
You're right, NiMH and NiCD's go off like a shotgun shell instead...
__________________
Site Content Specialist- Surface
HorizonHobby.Com

Horizon Hobby is on YouTube with hundreds of different videos! Visit us at
http://www.youtube.com/HorizonRCdotCom
RCGaryK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 06:03 PM   #87
Tech Master
 
adamge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Saskatoon,SK Canada
Posts: 1,654
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

What impossible hurdle prevents 7.4v from being usable in 12th scale?
__________________
When someone is intent on excelling in an otherwise laudable manner, does he not desire to inflict pain on others by means of his exalted status and enjoy the envy he arouses? Is there not an anticipated delight in an artist's ability to defeat his artistic rivals, which heightens his euphoria in creation?
-Nietzsche
adamge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 06:48 PM   #88
Tech Champion
 
robk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Macho Business Donkey Wrestler
Posts: 7,588
Trader Rating: 22 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCGaryK

You're right, NiMH and NiCD's go off like a shotgun shell instead...
Have you seen this in person Gary? I have. It's a hell of a lot less scary than the fires I have seen on video. And I was less than 2 feet away...
__________________
A mutually re-enforcing cascade of failure

"Failior [sic] crowns enterprise." Robert Goddard

I-Lap Scoring Systems http://www.rclapcounter.com/
robk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 07:08 PM   #89
Tech Champion
 
RCGaryK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 7,331
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Yes I have and it sounds like an M80 or a shotgun shell going off. Its over a lot quicker than a LiPo flare up, IF it happens in the first place, but IMHO it can do more damage than a LiPo fire. But again, when have you heard of an Orion Pack going up? In the almost 3 years these have been available I don't believe there has been one documented case of an Orion LiPo going up
__________________
Site Content Specialist- Surface
HorizonHobby.Com

Horizon Hobby is on YouTube with hundreds of different videos! Visit us at
http://www.youtube.com/HorizonRCdotCom
RCGaryK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2007, 07:24 PM   #90
Tech Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: 2051 22nd ave
Posts: 13
Default

i'm all for the lipos it saves money in the long run beside that.....here at his&hers we have 7.4v 8000mah lipos its either 4200mah or 8000mah id rather run 8000mah and besides that the nimh only stay good for about 25 to 30 cycles when lipos stay good for 500 cycles i don`t know about you but i would rather go with lipos.
3h racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery box lipo or NiMh convikt R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 3 05-09-2008 10:08 AM
How do you match up Lipo and NiMH? Boosted561 Radio and Electronics 0 05-05-2008 07:37 AM
nimh vs lipo cyrrus Electric On-Road 2 03-12-2008 12:37 AM
NiMh vs. Lipo chicagokenji Electric On-Road 25 09-13-2006 10:02 PM
LiPo vs NiMh…. Hayden Electric On-Road 3 06-10-2006 09:27 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:32 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net