R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-19-2007, 12:02 PM   #61
Tech Master
 
linger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Retired
Posts: 1,132
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tire Chunker
Was Sony Lipo or Ion?
Since this is the Lipo awareness thread - the difference between Li-Po and Li-Ion is pretty small.

In general, Li-Ion cell is composed on a copper anode current collector coated with a compressed graphite powder, and the cathode is an aluminum current collector with a Li Cobalt Dioxide coating. The anode and cathode are seperated by a thin seperator and then the sheets are rolled and stuffed into a metal can.

A Li-Po is practically identical in materials used - same anode, same cathode, same seperator, same electrolyte - just the mechanical form factor has changed. Instead of rolling one anode/cathode/seperator - a lipo is many anode cathode pairs all stacked on top of each other. They are welded together in parallel to get high current capability. Then they are put into an aluminum pouch instead of a can.
__________________
I used to be a spitter, now I'm a swallower. I graduated.
linger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 12:48 PM   #62
Tech Fanatic
 
James35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 750
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Here is a nice video of Lipos catching on fire (controlled circumstances). Everyone should watch this to see that setting a lipo on a something non-flamable (like a metal plate) isn't good enough. The thrust of the explosion will move the battery.
http://www.liposack.com/LipoSackv.wmv
James35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 01:18 PM   #63
Tech Addict
 
MrBlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: OC
Posts: 746
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James35
Here is a nice video of Lipos catching on fire (controlled circumstances). Everyone should watch this to see that setting a lipo on a something non-flamable (like a metal plate) isn't good enough. The thrust of the explosion will move the battery.
http://www.liposack.com/LipoSackv.wmv
Notice the location of said video?

Please poeple do the research and realise that these are examples of people purposely destroying batteries and the fact is a NiMH actually has the potential if abuse to more damage then a LiPo. We have recieved zero calls from people having dmage or injury due to LiPo's and the same cannot be said about NiMH.
__________________
TEAM ORION - AVIONICS - KYOSHO - KO PROPO - PEAK

"Racing is about the journey not the destination if it wasn't it would simply be called Arriving"

"The solution is people need to spend more of their efforts on promoting and finding more people to race with, rather then a personal quest to form a class that they can win at."
MrBlack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 02:45 PM   #64
Tech Master
 
bxpitbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Union City, New Jersey
Posts: 1,883
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default You know what I hate

You know what I hate, when people post videos of Li-Po batteries being overcharged intentionally. DUH, buy a charger with a Li-Po cut-off! I have been running Li-Po for awhile with ZERO problems! If you hook it up to a charger not made for Li-Po, of course its gonna be a problem! People, step to the 21st century! Li-Po is giving electric the life to beat out nitros, so either get it together or go away!
__________________
R40-Pondering a new Red Dot
Hara Pro4-GTB/3.5/Max Amps-yea.
Pondering moving on to Xray-have to go with a winner. If you cant beat em, join em!

I gear to run and win, not to THERMAL!
bxpitbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 02:57 PM   #65
Tech Fanatic
 
James35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 750
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Yes, most likely this won't happen, but I have seen many people perform unattended charging thinking they are safe by placing it on a metal plate or similar. Heck, I used to do that!

Worst case scenario, if a Lipo does explode, it won't sit still, it can move. This thread was for Lipo awareness, and like many people, I was unaware that they would move to this extent. It's only wise to educate yourself on worst case scenarios.
James35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 03:02 PM   #66
Tech Elite
 
joe of loath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bristol, England, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,857
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

that video was just a sales pitch... but i still wouldn't like a lungfull of that smoke...
joe of loath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 03:06 PM   #67
Tech Master
 
sportpak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ft Wayne, IN
Posts: 1,314
Trader Rating: 26 (100%+)
Default

I'm tired of watching these videos. I tired of people "hearing" of horror stories. If you've never owned one, ran one, or actually knew a dude with one, save us all the BS! If you have some credible information, please share. I dented a MaxAmps battery in a crash. I cycled it and it seemed to work fine. I don't have that battery anymore because of it being soft. But it didn't blow up, smoke, fire, or take off like a bottle rocket. I was using a proper charger and settings. Grow a damn brain and these things are not that dangerous.
__________________
-Tamiya TA05-R - Tamiya M05 - Summit Raceway Ft. Wayne, IN

www.summitrcraceway.com
sportpak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 03:35 PM   #68
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,141
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe of loath
that video was just a sales pitch... but i still wouldn't like a lungfull of that smoke...
$25 Liposack is worth the peace of mind, don't you think?
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 04:05 PM   #69
Tech Addict
 
Iceracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 656
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

A metal tin with a lid with some vent holes in it would be good as well. I charge, transport and store mine in a metal can that has a lid on it. I cut an opening for the charger leads to go through. Worst things for this sport and lipo would be either overexaggeration of risk or complacency. To me, you have to treat lipos like a fuel that has a risk of self ignition. That doesn't mean they aren't safe, just that you have to use them safely.
Iceracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 04:23 PM   #70
Tech Elite
 
andrewdoherty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ★Wylie, TX★
Posts: 3,776
Trader Rating: 47 (100%+)
Default

A local racer running his maxamps 6000( I think, might have been his smaller maxamps batery) in sedan hit the wall SUPER hard the other day (no hard case on the maxamps fyi). Upon inspection the Lipo had swollen up. So we set it outside. Its been sitting there for about a week and nothings changed. It wont ever see use again, but thats all I have ever seen a LiPo do.
__________________
"Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." -Henry Ford
"[Driving] Genius is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration" -T.A. Edison
|◤Hobbywing◢|◤SpeedzoneUSA.com◢|◤Pro-One◢|
|◤ReflexRacing.net◢|◤Protoform◢|◤AVID R/C◢|
andrewdoherty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 04:26 PM   #71
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 223
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxpitbull
You know what I hate, when people post videos of Li-Po batteries being overcharged intentionally. DUH, buy a charger with a Li-Po cut-off! I have been running Li-Po for awhile with ZERO problems! If you hook it up to a charger not made for Li-Po, of course its gonna be a problem! People, step to the 21st century! Li-Po is giving electric the life to beat out nitros, so either get it together or go away!
Hook up ANY battery to a charger that has a cutoff.... And then hope it works. We've been using peak detect chargers for years, and sometimes, for many different reasons, that peak detect doesn't work. Then the batteries go boom. Do you really think that the LiPo chargers are that much better than the NiMh or NiCd chargers? That they won't fail?

NiMh, NiCd or LiPo, it doesn't matter. It all comes down to the simple fact that a mistake, or a mechanical failure or a manufacturing defect can and will happen. It's the risk we place ourselves in when that does happen.

Trying to compare statistics of NiMh vs. LiPo right now is useless. The number of NiMh batteries that have been sold, charged and used far outpaces the number of LiPos. Compare failure rates per thousand batteries (if you can get those numbers) or just wait until racers have been using as many LiPo batteries as NiMh.


I'm not against LiPo. I think it is very interesting technology, but we are just at it's infancy. We have a lot to learn and a lot of development ahead of us.
gotpez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 06:08 PM   #72
Tech Master
 
bxpitbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Union City, New Jersey
Posts: 1,883
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sportpak
I'm tired of watching these videos. I tired of people "hearing" of horror stories. If you've never owned one, ran one, or actually knew a dude with one, save us all the BS! If you have some credible information, please share. I dented a MaxAmps battery in a crash. I cycled it and it seemed to work fine. I don't have that battery anymore because of it being soft. But it didn't blow up, smoke, fire, or take off like a bottle rocket. I was using a proper charger and settings. Grow a damn brain and these things are not that dangerous.
Thank you very much! I was running my Pro4 in the street during a speed run and it got RUN OVER by a car. SMOOSHED! The only thing that suffered was a mangled body, broken body post and a crushed shock. No fires, no battery problems...NONE! I still use the pack (MaxAmps 6000 7.4 volts). People kill me with those videos! Let that had been a Nimh or Nicad, plop plop FIZZ FIZZ then POW! But, I guess the people who have a lifetime of sub c's dont want to talk about that!
__________________
R40-Pondering a new Red Dot
Hara Pro4-GTB/3.5/Max Amps-yea.
Pondering moving on to Xray-have to go with a winner. If you cant beat em, join em!

I gear to run and win, not to THERMAL!
bxpitbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 09:20 PM   #73
Tech Elite
 
Mr. Shookie's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The Wilderness
Posts: 4,711
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Mr. Shookie Send a message via MSN to Mr. Shookie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpez

Trying to compare statistics of NiMh vs. LiPo right now is useless. The number of NiMh batteries that have been sold, charged and used far outpaces the number of LiPos. Compare failure rates per thousand batteries (if you can get those numbers) or just wait until racers have been using as many LiPo batteries as NiMh.


I'm not against LiPo. I think it is very interesting technology, but we are just at it's infancy. We have a lot to learn and a lot of development ahead of us.
I beg to differ about the amount of Lipo being sold and used...
Every Cell phone and laptop has been using, charging and discharging for quite a while now with very few problems.
With everything there is risk.
You gas tank in your car has about the same likeliness of exploding in a crash as a lipo pack.
Like I said if you abuse anything you will most likely get burned.
But to say you can not do failure rate per thousand is a bit off.
Lipo isn't new, its just new to RC cars.
Its been around in RC Planes for quite a while, and there you find most of the horror stories as they hit the ground at much higher impacrt rates than RC cars. Lipo is getting safer all the time. There are companies doing LiMg Lithium Magnesium that will not ignite only smoke if shorted or puctured.
Heck even the newer cordless tools are all going the lipo route.
Just a matter of time.
-SHookie <><
__________________
All who love the LORD JESUS I praise with you.1 Cor 10:31
Team HOLY Rollers (Team Manager)
The Church is a Hospital for Sinners not a Museum for Saints.
RcTech Feedback <>< RC Tech Subcriber #92
Mr. Shookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 09:41 PM   #74
Tech Elite
 
EddieO's Avatar
R/C Tech Charter Subscriber
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,414
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Well, I dunno about few problems...

Just google sony laptop batteries recall......been going on since 1998 with various reasons, but all safety related.....Dell alone recalled 4.1 million lithium based batteries....Apple had a monster recall, as 2 of my 3 laptops at the time got new batteries...

Just a snippet from one of the articles

"The safety agency knows of 339 incidents in which lithium batteries used in laptops and cell phones not just Dell products overheated between 2003 and 2005, Wolfson said.

The list of problems ranged from smoke and minor skin burns to more serious injuries and property damage, Wolfson said."

These made by sony, one of the largest electronic companies in the world.....a large percentage of what is out there right now is from low quality factories.....

I dare anyone to find a recall on NIMH this big......cause you won't and anything close won't be a saftey issue.....

Later EddieO
__________________
www.teambrood.com
EddieO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2007, 09:54 PM   #75
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St Louis
Posts: 7,868
Trader Rating: 198 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
Well, I dunno about few problems...

Just google sony laptop batteries recall......been going on since 1998 with various reasons, but all safety related.....Dell alone recalled 4.1 million lithium based batteries....Apple had a monster recall, as 2 of my 3 laptops at the time got new batteries...

Just a snippet from one of the articles

"The safety agency knows of 339 incidents in which lithium batteries used in laptops and cell phones not just Dell products overheated between 2003 and 2005, Wolfson said.

The list of problems ranged from smoke and minor skin burns to more serious injuries and property damage, Wolfson said."

These made by sony, one of the largest electronic companies in the world.....a large percentage of what is out there right now is from low quality factories.....

I dare anyone to find a recall on NIMH this big......cause you won't and anything close won't be a saftey issue.....

Later EddieO
You forgot to mention how laptops are used. They are left on for hours. They get darn hot inside. Althought I am sure a production problem was the main reason for the recall. The cells used in lap tops are not even the same as the ones we use in RC. Take one of your lap top batteries apart. They are cylinders. Not packs like we use. At least the ones I have taken apart.

Sub c cells will leak. This has been this way for years. The chargers used are low current chargers. So over all very safe units. Compared to other types.

You are comparing Apples to Oranges. I do understand you do not like Lipo due to you make money off the sub c packs. So I do understand your point. But your examples just do not add up to RC lipo's.
__________________
Please become an organ donor.
www.donatelife.net
Custom decals and Sno-Tee'z, T-Shirts by Sno Camel
dodgeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TrueRC Lipo 10C and 15C 8000mah Lipo Fitment in RC10T4 or XXXTCR Cain Electric Off-Road 2 09-09-2008 08:14 PM
NIP Novak 5amp lipo regulator with volt monitor, NIP venom 1600mah lipo rx pack sharkman R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 1 06-10-2008 02:36 PM
LIPO CHARGER LIKE HYPERION AND LIPO BATTS AND MAYBE CHEAP 12TH SCALE jslider R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 1 02-16-2008 07:55 AM
FS TrakPower 7.4V 4900MAH Hardshell Lipo,TrakPowerBalancer,TrinityReference 4500 Lipo ffpm46 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 11 01-29-2008 06:11 PM
Pg 2 on Complete Sellout Motor rebuild Orion Lipo, peak Lipo 4800 and more gunlocators R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 18 10-08-2007 02:11 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 06:41 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net