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Old 03-15-2007, 09:52 AM   #16
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Default LIPO INFO FORUMO

Thanks for setting up this forum.

Our local club has been talking about LIPOs. Most people aren't bothered by the idea of running quality LIPOs properly. However, it's the possibility of poor quality packs that might be prone to catch fire or mistakes by people using them that have folks concerned. We really need to understand what it takes to make them safe to have confidence to use them. They are also waiting to see what begins to become sort of "standard" for safety so they know what to allow and disallow. In other words, what rules would we have to establish?

It would probably really help if a few tracks of fairly well known reputation running LIPO would let us know how they handle things. If we did ever trial some LIPOs it would be on our large outdoor asphalt facility (pits on old tennis courts).
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:14 PM   #17
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Where the most concern has come from isn't the guy that doesn't know that lipo is dangerous and charges the pack with the incorrect charger as most hobby shops and track owners have made the saftey concerns known to those who buy and or race lipos.

There is something that needs to also be addressed is the lack of knowledge of C rating. Some guy buys even a no name lipo buy doesn't know that running a 10C rated pack in a TC with a 7 turn is going to put too much of a load on that pack. Which inturn can also cause lipo's to get volitile.

Although a no name pack should be avoided as for the reasons plainly listed.
C rating is something that needs to have some understanding to use lipo's correctly. In TC and other high amp draw applications I would say avoid cells rated at less than 20C. As there are times that you can easly draw 18-19C or more especially if you run MOD.

Ok thats the only thing that I thought should be expanded on.
The Orion 3200 Lipo Thread has alot of great knowledge about the industry as well as Mr. Black has been very candid about information on lipo's.

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Old 03-16-2007, 12:34 AM   #18
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Here's one I'm guilty of. Now that summer is coming, DO NOT leave your LiPo batteries in your real car all day to bake in the sun. I tend to leave my R/C gear in my car while at work, and it's about 900 degrees in there by the time I head to the track. August in KC is nasty business. This is my first summer with LiPo, so I'll have to rethink how I handle my gear. I guess the Liposack comes inside all day. Maybe it's a good chance to get them charged up.
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:22 AM   #19
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Good information, much appreciated. My concern is that everyone wants to buy cheap stuff. When you buy cheap NiMH, you get cells less on the edge, and apparently fewer problems. When you buy LiPo on the cheap, you get LiPos apparently more on the edge!

It seems that LiPo and 27T/19T are good bedfellows, but less so in Mod. Since it is likely that those having problems with NiMh are not following the instructions (too high a charge rate, re-peaking, not storing with charge in, etc.) it is a bit scary what might happen when they ignore LiPo instructions.

Sensibly supervised by shops and Clubs, it seems that Stock classes and LiPo might make life easier for the new driver - good! Pesonally I miss the challenge of tuning brushed motors, and can't use LiPo in 12th until the 5v cell comes along. Each to their own!
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Old 03-16-2007, 08:27 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne
Pesonally I miss the challenge of tuning brushed motors, and can't use LiPo in 12th until the 5v cell comes along. Each to their own!
1) the 5v cells are in the works
2) Even if they aren't I heard that they are making a inline voltage resister simular to the novak receiver pack voltage resister. So you can run a 7.4v pack....heck mains could go for 30 minutes...


So it shouldn't be long till we see 12th scales literally flying....
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Old 03-16-2007, 09:13 AM   #21
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Hmm... a device between the motor and battery that controls the voltage the motor receives. Where have I heard of such a thing before?
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Old 03-16-2007, 10:02 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowerOne
It seems that LiPo and 27T/19T are good bedfellows, but less so in Mod. Since it is likely that those having problems with NiMh are not following the instructions (too high a charge rate, re-peaking, not storing with charge in, etc.) it is a bit scary what might happen when they ignore LiPo instructions.
I used to ignore the instructions with NIMH, i never dicharged a pack on a discharger becsaue i didnt own one :P

Since i got my LIPO, i tape it into my car charge it up a week before racing and off i go... I once charged it becasue i thought i had another final, which i didnt. 3 weeks later i put it on charge and it was showing at 8.38V now i think thats impressive personally. I Love LIPO
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Old 03-16-2007, 11:45 AM   #23
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5V cells are not only in the works but they have been around actually for awhile however they do not work as well for our applications as people would beleive there is also currently durability and safety concerns with 5V cells.
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:09 PM   #24
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Reposted here for posterity:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
One of the people I have spoken to has been flying RC airplanes for 30 years, is a member of the AMA Hall of Fame, and is an engineer for a defense contracting firm. He gave 2 stories of fellow filers losing their cars to fires started by lipo, one member who had extensive damage to his house from a lipo pack, and he himself had a pack ignite. Fortunately his pack was in a Pyrex dish so he avoided any damage to his home. In all cases they were using packs made from Kokam cells, the same ones Orion is using. This is not a knee jerk reaction. I am pointing out a REAL DANGER with LiPo cells.

Granted, some of the stuff we use in our hobby is also dangerous. Soldering irons, fuel based on nitromethane, motor spray, heck even hobby knives. I'm not against Lipo, I just want to make sure the safety aspect is considered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
This is blanket statement that is incorrect "packs made from Kokam cells, the same ones Orion is using."

These are not the same Kokam cells we use, They may be the same manufacturer sir but they are not the same cells, you are making false claims.

We currently use cells that have not previousely been available to the plane market before we began to use them in our car applications. We also only use the highest level of cells that Kokam makes. They do make lower quality cells for other applications and we do not use those as they are not designed to be used for our purpose and level of safety we require. Kokam had some problems in the past with company's using their cells improperly and packaging them improperly and since then they have focused on being more involved with the company's they deal with to ensure this does not happen going forward. Our Avionics SLPB line of batteries is just as durable when used for the right application as our SLPB Platinum and Carbon Edition packs. I have even powered a Mabushi 540 motor powered R/C car with one of our 1500mAh Lipo Avionics packs with out any issues.
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:11 PM   #25
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Reposted here for posterity:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
Actually we did recieve a call from a gentleman who had a battery explode while charging in the front seat (not one of ours) and shoot a hole into his dash as the cell continued to burn and burn his truck with it, It was a NiMH cell that caused the damage not a lipo. Their was also a gentle men on here that burned up his car again NiMH. We have sold both NiMH and LiPo over the last 2 years and we have yet to have a single report of one of our LiPo batteries causing personal or property damage, I wish I could say the same about NiMh. Infact we now are seeing many people switch to our LiPo because they are safer.

YES, OUR LIPO BATTERIES ARE SAFER THEN TODAYS NiMH. You can quote me on that.
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Old 03-16-2007, 01:17 PM   #26
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Will you also post my follow up?
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Old 03-16-2007, 01:18 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
So it shouldn't be long till we see 12th scales literally flying....
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I can get my 12th scale to fly now! It's the landings I'm bad at.
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Old 03-16-2007, 01:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
I can get my 12th scale to fly now! It's the landings I'm bad at.
LOL!
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:01 PM   #29
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Followup from jiml:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jiml
I stand corrected. My point was the cells used in the incidents I described are not cheap Chinese products. It was not my intention to slight your company.

And I should point out that the person I was talking about is a proponent of LiPo technology. (For those of you in Rio Linda, that means he thinks we should use them) He just wants to make sure people are careful with them. And I don't want something to happen that ruins the hobby for everyone.

Would it be a bad idea for all RC tracks to have a fire extinguisher handy?
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:02 PM   #30
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It may seem silly to repost stuff here, but I'm hoping this thread can turn into a resource for people seeking the truth about LiPo use in R/C cars, so I'm going to put anything pertinent in here, kind of like a FAQ.
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