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Old 03-21-2007, 01:20 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus Racing
OK, suppose I decide to balance an Orion pack ...

Should it be balanced every charge, every 5 charges, or what? Any real difference if you balance every time versus balancing every so often?

And what about the discharge-balancing function of the balancer? Is this recommended? Can it take the place of balance charging?

Thanks!
I check mine about every 30 runs or if there is a sing of capacity loss.

Sofar I personally have yet to have any balancing issues and have a couple of packs with over a 100 runs on them.

I had a racer come up to me at the track that has a pack slightly out of balance and then we balanced it in about 30 with a balancer that does so in both discharge and charge modes.

i suggest to people that if you run in a clun with several other drivers it is very easy just to share a balancer amongst several drivers as it is seldom needed with our batteries.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:26 PM   #152
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Darren, THS will be running them this summer so if you hold off on a decision you can decide in the fall when we all come back to carpet. We will have 3-4 months of usage to be able to tell you what we found. If it were me making the decision I would only allow the Orion cells.

Dont the HELIs charge their lipos in the same pits as the car guys? Dont they sometimes crash? Have you ever had a problem? I think you guys have more experience with LIPOs then you give yourself credit for
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:29 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by MasterD
Here is some more questions, since Lipo's are superior to NiMh why doesn't every track allow them? does anyone know why ROAR doesn't allow them? Could this be just a matter of time before they become the standard?
It's good to hear you've got an open mind about things. I was hoping this thread would help give people answers, especially track owners and race directors that are struggling with whether or not to allow them.

As for their acceptance, it just takes time. There are legitimate concerns about safety which has probably been the biggest hurdle. The nominal voltage of the packs is higher, making them look incompatible on the surface. The size and shape of the packs aren't friendly for all cars, though Orion has worked to fix that. Basically, we're just early into the process, and will find resistance throughout the entire journey.

I think the first step is to find something your comfortable with, and then try allowing them in your clubs mixed with NiMH, as long as people using them meet the minimum weight rules. Telling people they -have- to change is ridiculous, but giving them the option is a good first step.

Using LiPo for club racing and then buying new NiMH packs only for big races seems to make a lot of sense for guys that still want to travel to big races, but don't want to burn up their batteries during practice. One or two good LiPo packs could last you years for practicing. Since there's no skill involved with tuning or maintaining NiMH, it's not like you're going to lose your edge if you only run them when you have to a big events.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:35 PM   #154
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MasterD, a good reason to use lipos is that unlike NiMh cells which need to be fully cycled before charging in order to keep up performance, with Lipo cells you can just put them back on the charger after the car comes off the track. For some, this would mean a single battery pack could be used instead of 2-4 packs of Nimh cells. This saves you time discharging and equalizing your multiple packs of nimh, and may save you money by allowing you to get by with a single pack. You also won't need a high amperage discharger to help you cycle them and an equalizing tray.

As well, and this remains to be seen by me, but the performance of the newer Nimh cells seems tempermental and short lived. The Lipo cells may have a longer usefull life, saving even more money. My experience with the use of lipo's in Rc flight is that they hold up their performance way better than nimh over a summer's use. And for flight, their lighter weight for their capacity is a distinct advantage. In racing, it will obviously take changes in rules and possibly chassis design to take full advantage of the weight savings.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:45 PM   #155
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Don't forget about the low self-discharge. You can charge the cells up during the week and run them days later with no loss in performance.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:56 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Don't forget about the low self-discharge. You can charge the cells up during the week and run them days later with no loss in performance.
Which one could argue will increase the number of racers during the week. Its difficult for me to race on Wednesday night bc by time I got there, got unpacked and charged a pack it would be time for me to race in my first qualifier without any practice.
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Old 03-21-2007, 02:33 PM   #157
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the technology is yet to be perfected. am i right in saying it took a while for ROAR to allow Ni-Mh? (if they existed then) its just a matter of time before the issues are taken care of.
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Old 03-21-2007, 02:36 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe of loath
the technology is yet to be perfected. am i right in saying it took a while for ROAR to allow Ni-Mh? (if they existed then) its just a matter of time before the issues are taken care of.
It appears to be perfect enough for every single consumer electronics device created in the last 10 years. Its use in R/C isn't perfected, but that seems like our job, not theirs. The cells are there.
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Old 03-21-2007, 03:17 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe of loath
the technology is yet to be perfected. am i right in saying it took a while for ROAR to allow Ni-Mh? (if they existed then) its just a matter of time before the issues are taken care of.
Actually ROAR was around long before NimH in our industry and they came out and wer allowed almost emmediately as they fit the rule set lay'd out before by NiCD, StockMH was the same thing . The problem is LiPo is not a Sub-C battery and therefore ( from what I have been told) ROAR currently has no process in place to exept it as it is not a Sub-C battery we have offered to submit it is my understanding that there is not a cateragoiry that it can be submitted under and ROAR I am sure is trying to fix this.

Also ROAR is not the only rule maker of R/C racing most tracks do not use ROAR rules and most that do modify them heavily.

I think if somebody wants to run LiPo they need to ask their local track regardless of the ROAR rules and if they want to run LiPo and their local track does not allow it then they should ask around because many tracks are allowing them. I know several calls we have gotten from customers who have switched where they race to more LiPo friendly venues.

Infact as I right this I think I will begin to create a LiPo friendly track listing and encurage anyone who has a track or club to PM me and I will add you to this list on our LiPo page on the Orion website.
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Old 03-21-2007, 03:37 PM   #160
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Quote:
And NiMh cells just "pop", i haven't heard of anybody getting hurt or going to the hospital because of a NiMh cell "popping".
MasterC have a look at this forum thread if you think Nimh cells just pop.

http://www.rcracechat.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27232
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Old 03-21-2007, 03:41 PM   #161
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Sorry I ment MasterD
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:09 PM   #162
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I have seen and been around 3800 and 4200s when they went and i have not ever seen anything like that. If that's what they are capable of I definately have a new respect for them.

Or8ital, I would love to hear how things go with using Lipo's this summer outdoor at THS. That will give us a good base as to the measures we would have to take if we go Lipo in the fall. I appreciate the offer and the help.
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:13 PM   #163
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THIS JUST IN...

One of our Tech's just got off the phone with a customer who this last weekend was running at the TCS race up in Washington and they had an IB NiMH pack blow up on them. The pack was sitting on there pit table for about 5 minutes after it had been charged and was completely disconnected from anything when it went, luckily nobody was hurt but his pit towel did catch fire but was quickly extinguished.

Looks like no battery is safe.
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:21 PM   #164
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judging by these Nimh explosions i could make a gun that fires bargain bin cells
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:41 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe of loath
judging by these Nimh explosions i could make a gun that fires bargain bin cells
I think they fit right in a shot gun barrel

Actually I shouldn;t make jokes but I think it is something to consider as many base their argument against LiPo on the safety factor alone.
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