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Old 03-21-2007, 12:42 PM   #136
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Anybody know what cells VXR uses?
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:46 PM   #137
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The Nimh I saw explode happened during charging (but I think as a result of a cell not being properly discharged as a result of a failure of a discharger). It was pretty scary. People found pieces 20 feet away. Luckly the only damage was to people's ear drums.

I agree there are lots of Nimhs available but in practice one company has 80% of the market in the US (as far as racers go). There will be more then Orion selling safe lipos. I think the point people are trying to make is that for now only approve safe lipos and unfortunately to date only 1 company is doing that.

I wouldnt mind seeing a Team Br00d lipo cells. Does anyone know if Kokam's relationship with Orion is exclusive?
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:49 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
As for injuries.....NIMH cells don't really explode....they just burst, which typically sees them or parts of them shooting up in the air. I have never seen this from charging or a damaged cell....the only times is when the pack was shorted, like at the IIC when a pack was accidently moved up against a metal power supply and shorted....and then did its thing....yes there was injuries, but....in this case, it was hardly the batteries fault....
Perhaps by mandating the use of a hard case, we can reduce the danger associated with exposed cells. With NiMH, shorting cells against a chassis or metal object seems to be a common cause of failure. With Orion's design, even the connectors are recessed into the case somewhat, limiting the chance for inadvertent contact.

When it comes to rules, it seems reasonable to allow cells based on the manufacturer and model number, and then to have specific rules about case size and design so we have some kind of standard to work with. It doesn't seem likely that making rules about the physical dimensions of the actual cell will work with LiPo the way it does with NiMH.
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:53 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
I wouldnt mind seeing a Team Br00d lipo cells. Does anyone know if Kokam's relationship with Orion is exclusive?
It sounds like Kokam is picky about who they sell their raw cells to, and want to be in the know about how they're being assembled, what kind of case they're in, etc. If that's the case, companies like Br00d would likely have to do more than just slap their sticker on a cell and put it in a box. They'd need to be involved in the assembly of the packs, the case, etc. I can't speak for Eddie, but with his "I sell what wins" mentality, maybe he'd think that would be too much work for the return. It certainly appears to be more involved than the relative ease of matching and selling NiMH cells at a healthy markup.
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:54 PM   #140
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I notice on Trakpower's site they say the cells are raceworthy for 100 cycle, or 200 mixed practice and race. How would this compare to the Orions? 100 cycles sounds like only 2-3 months life to me.
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:56 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterD
If you had to guess a percent on the amount of tracks in the U.S. that allow Lipo at their track what would you say the percent is? A "bunch" just doesn't sound very convincing as far as jumping on the bandwagon for Lipo.

It would be impossible to allow only one kind of battery for EVERYBODY. That would be like saying everyone who drives a car has to use only BP gas. Wouldn't make much sense, would it?

As far as keeping with technology, besides the run time Lipo is not really any better then NiMh. Is it really a change in technology or an adaptation to current technology?

Anyway, you can see my quandry, if I allow Lipo's then I MAY pick up a racer or two but it would be at the expense of safety. I understand all the hoopla about the "top tier" Lipo's being safe and the nail going through it and all that jazz......but have you ever been to a race? Have you ever watched somebody charge/discharge/solder/connect wires/or anything else of that nature, and wish you were not the guy sitting next to them? And NiMh cells just "pop", i haven't heard of anybody getting hurt or going to the hospital because of a NiMh cell "popping". We are talking about Lipo's here.......one instance where someone is in a hurry to make a qualifier and ups the amps for a fast charge, or doesn't notice a swelling pack, or accidently chooses NiMh on his Ice charger instead of Lipo........( and the list of variables goes on and on.... ) and the next thing you know we are staring at a foundation where the store/track used to be ( extreme I know, but.....) I don't know, when faced with an ultimatum like "allow Lipo or loose racers" i guess i would have to cross that bridge when i came to it.

Darren
I'm not flaming you... so please do not take that way... Yes in my short time in the sport/hobby, 2 years in July, I have seen with my own eyes a NiMh go off, spiting acid and in the same pack another cell explode.

So, both in the wrong hands or with the wrong equipment can be a hazard to anyone around. But to say one is better then other is just not the case.
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:56 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceracer
I notice on Trakpower's site they say the cells are raceworthy for 100 cycle, or 200 mixed practice and race. How would this compare to the Orions? 100 cycles sounds like only 2-3 months life to me.
I believe linger said the Kokam cells used by Orion show very little fade after 400 cycles.
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:57 PM   #143
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or, as someone else said (sorry if i forgot your name, i cba to find the post), charge them in a metal tin. as long as there is only a little hole for the charger lead there will be no oxygen for the fire to burn so it will fill with smoke and stop. the fireproof bags are a bit overriced for what they are.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:00 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
It sounds like Kokam is picky about who they sell their raw cells to, and want to be in the know about how they're being assembled, what kind of case they're in, etc. If that's the case, companies like Br00d would likely have to do more than just slap their sticker on a cell and put it in a box. They'd need to be involved in the assembly of the packs, the case, etc. I can't speak for Eddie, but with his "I sell what wins" mentality, maybe he'd think that would be too much work for the return. It certainly appears to be more involved than the relative ease of matching and selling NiMH cells at a healthy markup.
Kokam is very picky about who they deal with and the case and PCB board interface they are both actually Orion's innovation and design.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:01 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I believe linger said the Kokam cells used by Orion show very little fade after 400 cycles.
This is true.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:01 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlack
...the case and PCB board interface they are both actually Orion's innovation and design.
Sounds like an OEM opportunity. :-D
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:03 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Sounds like an OEM opportunity. :-D
I have other stuff in the wokrs, maybe one day we can do OEM of our older stuff if there is a demand.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:05 PM   #148
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OK, suppose I decide to balance an Orion pack ...

Should it be balanced every charge, every 5 charges, or what? Any real difference if you balance every time versus balancing every so often?

And what about the discharge-balancing function of the balancer? Is this recommended? Can it take the place of balance charging?

Thanks!
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:05 PM   #149
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For transporting them you can get a cheap metal ammo can from the army surplus store. For charging on the bench, a metal cookie or candy box with a slot cut in the side to slip the charger lead down before you put on the lid.

As to whether to have an opening or not in the container. My argument for having an opening in the can is that the battery probably burns even in the absence of oxygen, otherwise how could the chemical reaction that generates electricity work in a closed cell, and its better to have an opening to vent gasses upward than have the can burst.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:14 PM   #150
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I haven't made up my mind yet, I would have no problem running Lipo's. I am just looking for some sort of concrete reasoning to run Lipo's over NiMh. Something I could explain to beginners as well as the experienced to calm their fears / apprehensions about Lipo.

It is not my intention to come off like a little susan about the "what ifs" regarding Lipo, but safety can't be ignored. It's taking it to the extreme for me to box myself in a padded room to keep myself safe. I understand your point though.

This thread has definately been a big help to point out that some of the wives tales (is wives tales one word or two? maybe a hyphon? ) anyway, aren't true and that you can have safe Lipo's as well as a safe way to charge them. I even learned some things i didn't know about NiMh cells along the way. ( thanks to syndr0me and others )

Here is some more questions, since Lipo's are superior to NiMh why doesn't every track allow them? does anyone know why ROAR doesn't allow them? Could this be just a matter of time before they become the standard?

Darren
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