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Old 03-15-2007, 04:18 PM   #91
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Most people in this discussion are just assuming that we all live in the world of 7.2 (or 7.4) volts. The R/C world is not made up entirely of Touring Cars. 1/12th Scale and Oval use 4.8 volts as their standard. No LiPo solution presented yet will allow us the flexibility that NiMh is giving. At 1.2 volts per cell, we can adjust the voltage to be appropriate for the cars and racing conditions. With LiPo at 3.7 volts per cell, we are much more limited.

NiMh isn't going to be our solution forever, but the replacement will need to be more flexible than the current LiPo's that are available.
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:15 PM   #92
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Great point gotpez. That is why for next year ROAR needs to be working on brushless right now. Why let different mfr's build brushless motors to different specs. They should have already been looking at setting up a standard for stock and 19 turn. To me ROAR has totally dropped the ball and we need to vote for some new people. Brushless is the future. LIPO needs to come up with some different voltages so they can be used in all classes.
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:21 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotpez
Most people in this discussion are just assuming that we all live in the world of 7.2 (or 7.4) volts. The R/C world is not made up entirely of Touring Cars. 1/12th Scale and Oval use 4.8 volts as their standard. No LiPo solution presented yet will allow us the flexibility that NiMh is giving. At 1.2 volts per cell, we can adjust the voltage to be appropriate for the cars and racing conditions. With LiPo at 3.7 volts per cell, we are much more limited.

NiMh isn't going to be our solution forever, but the replacement will need to be more flexible than the current LiPo's that are available.
Both 1/12 and Oval used to use 6-cell didn't they? A 6-cell LiPo weighs about the same if not less then 4-cells...so why not go back to 7.2 (7.4) volts and use LiPo. Now, admittedly, I haven't raced either one so I could be completely wrong and feel free to correct me.
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:55 PM   #94
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-IF- ROAR were to create a lipo/brushless class (or even one or the other) I would love to see them to adjust the race time. We already could easily go 6 min for stock, probably longer.
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:30 PM   #95
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LIPO packs don't fit in all 1/12th scale cars. I think we need to go to lower voltage to slow the cars down for beginners. New drivers with the 13.5 and 6 cell or lipo will be breaking their cars every run. The 13.5's have way too much rip for young or new racers. That is why ROAR needs to go to 5 cell and brushless. This will make the 13.5 the new stock class. The 10.5 will be the mid class and Mod can run whatever, but with 5 cells that will be brushless also. Brushed motors are history who wants to keep buying brushes and rebuilding motors when with brushless there is virtually no maintenance. I don't even know why this is an issue except for the motor mfr's who still want brushed motors. They sponsor all the big races so what they say goes. When are the big races Vegas, Cleveland, Novak, and Snowbirds going to have brushless classes. If is up to these races to start the trend since ROAR won't do anything about it.
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:04 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
Both 1/12 and Oval used to use 6-cell didn't they? A 6-cell LiPo weighs about the same if not less then 4-cells...so why not go back to 7.2 (7.4) volts and use LiPo. Now, admittedly, I haven't raced either one so I could be completely wrong and feel free to correct me.
A 1/12 car at 7.4 v on a carpet track is too much for most people to handle, period.
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:06 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robk
A 1/12 car at 7.4 v on a carpet track is too much for most people to handle, period.
Ok, fine...wasn't trying to start anything...like I said, no experience with them but I did remember seeing some old 1/12th scale that were setup for 6-cells.
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:11 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred kellner
LIPO packs don't fit in all 1/12th scale cars. I think we need to go to lower voltage to slow the cars down for beginners. New drivers with the 13.5 and 6 cell or lipo will be breaking their cars every run. The 13.5's have way too much rip for young or new racers. That is why ROAR needs to go to 5 cell and brushless. This will make the 13.5 the new stock class. The 10.5 will be the mid class and Mod can run whatever, but with 5 cells that will be brushless also. Brushed motors are history who wants to keep buying brushes and rebuilding motors when with brushless there is virtually no maintenance. I don't even know why this is an issue except for the motor mfr's who still want brushed motors. They sponsor all the big races so what they say goes. When are the big races Vegas, Cleveland, Novak, and Snowbirds going to have brushless classes. If is up to these races to start the trend since ROAR won't do anything about it.
You don't need lower voltage. Classes and chassis design is already done for 6-cell so if you need a slower class...LRP is coming out with a 15.5 that's supposed to be 'stock'...we'll see if it really is and there is always the good old Silvercan for new racers. They work great for TCS competition in GT3 and Mini so why isn't that a viable option? Everyone seems to want to redesign the hobby by making it farther from other form of racing such as buggies or stadium trucks by moving to 5-cell. How about just using the slower motor that's been used for a long time and has proven itself time and time again. Somebody PLEASE tell me why everyone is SO against Silvercan motors as a slower class.
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:29 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
Both 1/12 and Oval used to use 6-cell didn't they? A 6-cell LiPo weighs about the same if not less then 4-cells...so why not go back to 7.2 (7.4) volts and use LiPo. Now, admittedly, I haven't raced either one so I could be completely wrong and feel free to correct me.
Yikes!!! In the United States, 12th scale on-road gave up on 6-cells about 15+ years ago. The rest of the world caught up and went 4-cell just a few years later. 6-cell was just WAY too much power in those ultra-light little rockets! I don't know if there is a reasonable way for us to ever run the same voltage in 12th scale as the 10th scale classes. Kinda like putting a blown Hemi into a Yugo... Too much power and too little car.

All of the pan oval classes went 4-cell 5 or 6 years ago. The speeds had just been getting totally out of hand, and this is how they solved the problem. Kind of the same problem we are seeing in Touring Cars.


I really think that it's time for us to have a true revolution, not just evolution, in the motor and battery technology we use in R/C. Battery capacity and voltage is going crazy, and the power output from our motors is completely insane. As others have mentioned, the learning curve is just too difficult, and too expensive, for many new drivers. I don't care if we run 3.7, 4.8, 7.2 or 7.4 volts. The solution has to decrease the speed and power in the "Stock" class and create a wider spread between the intermediate and open modified classes.

So, bring on the LiPo, Fuel Cell or Solar Power, I don't care. We just need a solution that gets us away from the status quo on speed and power.
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:42 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
You don't need lower voltage. Classes and chassis design is already done for 6-cell so if you need a slower class...LRP is coming out with a 15.5 that's supposed to be 'stock'...we'll see if it really is and there is always the good old Silvercan for new racers. They work great for TCS competition in GT3 and Mini so why isn't that a viable option? Everyone seems to want to redesign the hobby by making it farther from other form of racing such as buggies or stadium trucks by moving to 5-cell. How about just using the slower motor that's been used for a long time and has proven itself time and time again. Somebody PLEASE tell me why everyone is SO against Silvercan motors as a slower class.
I'm against the silver can class because all that does is create another class, and it's just a temporary solution. Brushless technology is really taking off. Once it has reached critical mass, I expect they will stop making speed controllers that also support brushed motors. Lets embrace brushless and create a Stock motor definition that is more in line with it's original intent and not what it has become.


After driving with a 13.5 in my 12th scale car, I'm convinced that it is too fast to be the new definition for Stock. 15.5 or slower could be the good answer. I kind of use my son as my gauge. He is 11 and he has trouble with the power from a brushed stock motor. He's been racing for about 6 years now, and he is getting better at controlling a car, but his skill level would benefit from a slower motor class.
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Old 03-15-2007, 09:01 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
If they are going to add classes I personally think maybe they should reduce classes as well. Lets get rid of 19T (most events there isnt a person in 19T that isnt racing either stock or mod as well). So we add some classes but we get rid on some too. Dunno, just a thought.

-Stock Brushed Nimh
-Spec Brushless Lipo
-Mod (lipo or nimh / brushed or brushless)

We can keep it at three (x tires)
I agree, besides a 19T is a MOD anyway. Never understood that class. Just define the classes a little more. Something like this.

- Stock Brushed NiMH
- 13.5 Brushless NiMH / 3200 LiPo
- MOD BR / BL - NiMH / LiPo 3200 or 4800 (Run what you brung!)

As for the tires, I'm an outdoor racer so rubbers only. As for the indoor racing, that for ya'll rug racers to figure out.

Can I have my change, that was 5 cents.
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Old 09-05-2007, 12:17 PM   #102
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