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Old 03-15-2007, 01:01 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Ed237
I'm looking down the road, and I can see that possibly as early as next year and probably no later than 2-3 years from now that ROAR will legalize a stock brushless motor and LiPo batteries and I will gladly switch over once that happens.

But lets not rush into it. I don't think there are enough manufacturers or racers who are ready to switch to maintain the current level of competition. As much as I dislike Trinity, I don't think we should switch untill they are on board. And its not ROARs fault either. Lipo and brushless just are not popular enough - yet.

Until then, follow the current rules. It won't kill you.
Not everybody is content to wait for other people to make changes. It's akin to the difference between leading and following.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:05 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by ottoman
I dissagree... I am a dinasour... I have 2 GFX's with custom face plates... lathe, dyno, discharger's and a whole bunch of stuff I have accumulated over the years. I would have NO problem going to LiPo if it was legal to run at the races (small and big) that I attend. Heck I retire a perfectly good XRay each time a new one comes out so why would it bother me to put the old equipment on the shelf
Same goes fro B/L... I have a few and I like them BUT they arnt legal yet in most classes.
Make a SAFE... Orion/Peak style.... LiPo legal at the Novak, IIC, Cleveland, Birds etc and I will have no problem going LiPo. Same goes for B/L
Believe it or not us old RC racers have lived through a lot of changes over the years yet we are still around.... maybe "dinosaur" isnt really the right term
You are not alone.

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Old 03-15-2007, 01:09 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by or8ital
How big is the track?
Hehehe......you see NiMH days are numbered.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:10 PM   #79
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Does anybody really know what the percentage of brushes vs brushless systems nationally? If I had to guess, I would think its 70-30 in favor of brushed but like I said, I'm just guessing. I'm not going to pretend I know something I do not.

I commend Mr Black & Orion for being on the cutting edge of the new technology, but, I don't believe enough manufacturers have followed their lead and stepped up to make a total switch possible.

So that leaves us with the current conumdrum becase there is only room for one kind of cell or one kind of motor and ROAR and manufacturers need to reach some consensus on specs, packaging, and vehicle design.

You have to see the big picture and realize there is more to it than just a performance advantage or something thats easier to use.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:12 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed237
Does anybody really know what the percentage of brushes vs brushless systems at any track is? If I had to guess, I would think its 70-30 in favor of brushed but like I said, I'm just guessing. I'm going to pretend I know something I do not.

I commend Mr Black & Orion for being on the cutting edge of the new technology, but, I don't believe enough manufacturers have followed their lead and stepped up to make a total switch possible.

So that leaves us with the current conumdrum becase there is only room for one kind of cell or one kind of motor and ROAR and manufacturers need to reach some consensus on specs, packaging, and vehicle design.

You have to see the big picture and realize there is more to it than just a performance advantage or something thats easier to use.
How many mfg arent looking at brushless? Im not sure about Trinity but it seems everyone else is...
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:15 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed237
Does anybody really know what the percentage of brushes vs brushless systems nationally? If I had to guess, I would think its 70-30 in favor of brushed but like I said, I'm just guessing. I'm not going to pretend I know something I do not.

I commend Mr Black & Orion for being on the cutting edge of the new technology, but, I don't believe enough manufacturers have followed their lead and stepped up to make a total switch possible.

So that leaves us with the current conumdrum becase there is only room for one kind of cell or one kind of motor and ROAR and manufacturers need to reach some consensus on specs, packaging, and vehicle design.

You have to see the big picture and realize there is more to it than just a performance advantage or something thats easier to use.
I know the percentage at our track and I put them right there in my last post. More brushless then brushed..easily...and definetely more LiPo then NiMh. Your track, plus my track divide by 2 and that means about a 50/50 mix or so and one is growing...the other isn't.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:15 PM   #82
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I think Trinity has its own brushless motors on sale now. ( I read it in RC Extreme ar RC Car and Action If I'm not mistaken ).
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:20 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by asw7576
I think Trinity has its own brushless motors on sale now. ( I read it in RC Extreme ar RC Car and Action If I'm not mistaken ).
You are right. I just looked. Im not sure who isnt making or about to make brushless motors that was in the business before?? I guess now its more a matter of them all making motors that meet roughly the same specs. I think ROAR or someone should put these specs out now if we expect a brushless spec class in 2008. If it were me and I worked for ROAR I would work with Novak (the current defacto standard) to take the work they have done and start to publish it as the standard for 2008 for motor approval later in the year.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:20 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed237
I'm looking down the road, and I can see that possibly as early as next year and probably no later than 2-3 years from now that ROAR will legalize a stock brushless motor and LiPo batteries and I will gladly switch over once that happens.

But lets not rush into it. I don't think there are enough manufacturers or racers who are ready to switch to maintain the current level of competition. As much as I dislike Trinity, I don't think we should switch untill they are on board. And its not ROARs fault either. Lipo and brushless just are not popular enough - yet.

Until then, follow the current rules. It won't kill you.
Oh yeah...time to switch then my friend....Trinity already has brushless.

Trinity Brushless.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:24 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4

[URL=http://www.teamtrinity.com/shop/motors/brushless-n4060.html
Trinity Brushless.[/URL]

Just wait , Trinity will eat crow when they release their Stock brushless that they say they will never produce....
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:35 PM   #86
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I was speaking more about the Lipos than the brushless motors. We definately have more options with brushless motors than we do with Lipo so it would be nice to see 3 or 4 more solid manufacturers get in.

I don't want to switch to lipos until I know that the the battery was made to fit the vehicle (or vice versa) and that my competitors are using similar cells that I am (to make it fair) and that everyone is using an ESC or device with low voltage cut off protection.

And until the manufacturers and ROAR get it worked out, a bunch of numbskulls pining away on message boards (myself included) isnt going to make it happen!
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:46 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed237
I was speaking more about the Lipos than the brushless motors. We definately have more options with brushless motors than we do with Lipo so it would be nice to see 3 or 4 more solid manufacturers get in.

I don't want to switch to lipos until I know that the the battery was made to fit the vehicle (or vice versa) and that my competitors are using similar cells that I am (to make it fair) and that everyone is using an ESC or device with low voltage cut off protection.

And until the manufacturers and ROAR get it worked out, a bunch of numbskulls pining away on message boards (myself included) isnt going to make it happen!
The new Schumacher Mi3 says it's made specifically for 5-6 cell AND LIPO. The new Losi Type-R says it's made to fit LIPO too. The Orion/Peak 3200s fit almost anything including Tamiya Minis so LiPo fitting the car isn't an issue...cars being made to fit LiPo isn't an issue as probably all new chassis will fit them just like Schumacher and Losi have done. Nobody is saying you have to change...just that the industry standard is already changing and it's changed because that's the choice that racers and new people to the hobby are making, not because of new rules. The consumer drives change...not the other way round.
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Old 03-15-2007, 01:58 PM   #88
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We have a lot longer journey ahead of us with LiPo than brushless. That's why I think it's unfortunate to always combine the discussion about the two.

The Mi3 and Type-R aren't ready yet, though we should see both soon. It's definitely an indication that car designers see the writing on the wall, as both chassis went out of their way to ensure the popular LiPo would fit. So that's the right idea.

But, there are definitely issues. We don't have a standard size, people are using cheap dangerous cells, consumer awareness is low, chassis balance is a challenge, etc. We're getting there with LiPo, and you can very definitely see progress, but we're a way back still.

That said, we should keep moving forward with rules, awareness, and tolerance. If a responsible person in your club wants to run LiPo, and they're using safe cells, I think it's okay to let them. Just make sure they make weight to keep things fair. If it makes them feel better about racing, and they're not at an unfair advantage, it really doesn't hurt anybody. It's happening all around already, and that trend is only going to grow as its use in R/C cars matures.
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:01 PM   #89
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Its ironic that Lipo has been aroind longer then brushless (I believe) but that we still have so much further to go with Lipo. I guess if brushless motors had been catching fire when they first came out instead of lipo the discussion would be different?
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Old 03-15-2007, 02:42 PM   #90
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I am enjoying the discussion on this topic. I can say at my track (The Track) no one as of yet is running BL and/or Lipo batteries. If I do continue to race touring cars next year on carpet it will be with BL and Lipo. I have thought about leaving the hobby very seriously. Tired of truing, discharging and what ever else. I want to drive and have the same performance each run. I think this would be more of a reality with these new technologies.
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