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Old 03-14-2007, 02:12 PM   #16
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when it comes to sedans you would end up with:

- Stock Brushed w Lipo & foam tires
- Stock Brushed w Lipo & rubber tires
- Stock Brushed w Nimh & foam tires
- Stock Brushed w Nimh & rubber tires
- Stock Brushless w Lipo & foam tires
- Stock Brushless w Lipo & rubber tires

hey Joe, let's create another separate class based off something trivial that people think they can win in.... how about a class based on traction compounds: Para, Jack, WD40...
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by or8ital
Wasnt trying to bitch, just didnt want to take the thread down the lipo safety path (which it kind of already did) because we already have 1000 of those and it become a big fight. Safety with all new technology should be considered by ROAR when making new classes for all equipment (not just batteries).

I think the problem is brushless and LiPo should be separate topics.

I would love to see a brushless spec class. But the problem is who's spec? Novak is the only one making a 13.5 turn motor. If Castle Creations came out with one, and it's much faster, doesn't that defeat the purpose?
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
when it comes to sedans you would end up with:

- Stock Brushed w Lipo & foam tires
- Stock Brushed w Lipo & rubber tires
- Stock Brushed w Nimh & foam tires
- Stock Brushed w Nimh & rubber tires
- Stock Brushless w Lipo & foam tires
- Stock Brushless w Lipo & rubber tires

hey Joe, let's create another separate class based off something trivial that people think they can win in.... how about a class based on traction compounds: Para, Jack, WD40...
Good point! Thats the problem with looking at each technology individually. At some point you have to combine things or it gets out of control!
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-ho-cars
when it comes to sedans you would end up with:

- Stock Brushed w Lipo & foam tires
- Stock Brushed w Lipo & rubber tires
- Stock Brushed w Nimh & foam tires
- Stock Brushed w Nimh & rubber tires
- Stock Brushless w Lipo & foam tires
- Stock Brushless w Lipo & rubber tires

hey Joe, let's create another separate class based off something trivial that people think they can win in.... how about a class based on traction compounds: Para, Jack, WD40...
Now, you wanna make the racing interesting...LeMans doesn't race all the classes seperatly. Have all the classes you want...run them all at the same time. Of course several heats throughout the day and add all the laps for each person up and that's your winner in each class. You want driving to become even more important and batteries and motors to become less...this is the way to do it. People will not only have to negotiate corners but other drivers as well. Now, this would only work if people were gracious racers and slower guys took the outside line to make way for the MOD guy coming up fast and people would have to understand that accidents happen and not punch-out a guy because of it. Personally I think it'd be a hoot to have 10-20 cars on the track at a time. I know nobody else would support it but I still think it'd be fun...which IS what it's all about right?
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:23 PM   #20
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There are dangerous cheap LiPo out there, mostly from China according to Linger. The good ones are very good, and the bad ones are very bad. We can't let your scary stories hold us back, though, and we won't. You not knowing what kind of LiPo it is and then using the story to try and scare people is the WRONG thing to do. If you really care, find out who made the pack and spread the word that cheap LiPos can be dangerous. You're lumping them all together into the same group, and that is a mistake. The good LiPo cost three times as much as the cheap ones, but they're designed to extremely high tolerances, and have built-in safety mechanisms. Your story leaves out the important, critical fact of who made the battery, and verges on being misinformation about LiPo batteries without that detail.

When it comes to LiPo, don't be cheap. When it comes to rules, outlaw all LiPo and then only accept the ones that meet certain safety standards. If these batteries can be safe enough to be pressed against our damn heads all day in cell phones, and pressed against our wedding tackle in laptop computers, I'm pretty sure they can be made foolproof enough to work in R/C cars as well.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:24 PM   #21
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I really don't see ROAR allowing LIPO to run in a class with NIMH. I also don't see ROAR allowing BL to run with BR outside of the Modified class. As to adding extra classes....ROAR ain't NORRCA and never will be.....

sorry.....
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
I really don't see ROAR allowing LIPO to run in a class with NIMH. I also don't see ROAR allowing BL to run with BR outside of the Modified class. As to adding extra classes....ROAR ain't NORRCA and never will be.....

sorry.....
So you're saying they shouldn't make a stock brushless and spec mod (19T) brushless class?
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:37 PM   #23
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If they are going to add classes I personally think maybe they should reduce classes as well. Lets get rid of 19T (most events there isnt a person in 19T that isnt racing either stock or mod as well). So we add some classes but we get rid on some too. Dunno, just a thought.

-Stock Brushed Nimh
-Spec Brushless Lipo
-Mod (lipo or nimh / brushed or brushless)

We can keep it at three (x tires)
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:37 PM   #24
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That is not what I am saying....

In a nutshell: something has to go.....most likely it will be NIMH and BR motors. I don't see ROAR allowing these differing technologies to compete against each other for a National Title. As to adding extra classes to the existing structure...see my comment above.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
That is not what I am saying....

In a nutshell: something has to go.....most likely it will be NIMH and BR motors. I don't see ROAR allowing these differing technologies to compete against each other for a National Title. As to adding extra classes to the existing structure...see my comment above.
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:47 PM   #26
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Allowing BL in stock would completely make over the sport. And I'm not sure which way it would go.

I think the first step would be to allow BL in 19T.

My opinion (OT) stock should be rubber only. For 19T, it's your choice rubber or foam run what you want - let qualifing sort it out.

In Mod, I think LiPo might be too much. If you were to let me run my JRXS-R (not that I have one yet) in mod with Lipo, I could pretty much bet that I wouldn't be using a 3.5 on carpet... Maybe on a big asphalt track? Maybe ROAR might consider Lipo, if a voltage limiter was used (That would make tech a nightmare...)

There is no reason why ROAR couldn't screen Lipos like they do every other type of battery. If your lipo isn't approved (due to safety), then you don't race it. Just like every other battery outthere.

The bottom line is that the casual racer is using lipo and BL. If we want them to start racing in the lower brackets, we need to accomodate their equipment.

(going OT again) I would rather ROAR slow TC down by making mains longer (forcing drivers to use higher wind motors) to make the longer mains. The carpet Nats are a great point of this. Our battery / motors combos have improved a ton in the last few years. Maybe mod TC should be 8 minutes, like 1/12... Maybe 8 minutes isn't long enough... (I know, some say this starts a battery war all over again, but 1/12 doesn't have this problem).
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
If they are going to add classes I personally think maybe they should reduce classes as well. Lets get rid of 19T (most events there isnt a person in 19T that isnt racing either stock or mod as well). So we add some classes but we get rid on some too. Dunno, just a thought.

-Stock Brushed Nimh
-Spec Brushless Lipo
-Mod (lipo or nimh / brushed or brushless)

We can keep it at three.
I agree that we need fewer classes, but this doesn't feel like the right mix. 19T is often the most popular class at big races, and with this scenario it would require stock and mod guys to maintain a separate set of batteries specifically for that class. As long as NiMH is allowed, that's what people are going to use at big events, because it's faster. It would be a shame to kill 19T, it's often the most interesting since you get to see the stock guys vs the mod guys.

We probably need to separate these two topics. It's hard to make any progress talking about a brushless class since so many people are still uninformed about LiPo, and naturally rejected it because it melted the fur on someone's brother's cat. Maybe we should start fresh without the LiPo part and just assume we're stuck with NiMH at big events for a while longer.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:50 PM   #28
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Did you mean voltage limiter on Nimh or Lipo? Nimh has more voltage at this point (at least at the start).
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:51 PM   #29
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Wow, this took a nose dive.

Okay, forget LiPo for now. Lets just talk brushless classes. Hopefully you race at a club that allows LiPo to be run with NiMH if there are weight limits. It's really very close, with the advantage going to NiMH.

But, for now, that's a different argument.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
Did you mean voltage limiter on Nimh or Lipo? Nimh has more voltage at this point (at least at the start).
or8ital, I meant voltage limiter on lipo. I know the voltage is the same at the start. But compare a few packs at the end of a heat. Run them both through a 30+ amp discharge and you will see where lipo bench tests better.
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