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Old 03-15-2007, 04:20 PM   #136
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It`s all my fault !!!


sorry.....
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:52 PM   #137
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I guess EddieO just can't stop picking fights with anyone who he thinks disagrees with him, or who he thinks wants to see his business fail.

I don't remember anyone wishing his business failure. He himself has stated numerous times that Brood will be getting into brushless (probably LIPO too given time <- he hasn't said that) So who wished what?

In the meantime, Eddie has picked a fight with Adrian, tallyrc, wild cherry, ....
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Old 03-15-2007, 04:52 PM   #138
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It is my opinion that brushless motors and LIPO will completely overtake brushed motors and nimh in the next several years. For those that complain that same turn brushless motors will not be equal to each other, what about stock motors, outlaw stock motors, different designs, etc. And so what. Aren't most stock racers using essentially the trinity co27? Aren't most racers using the IB or EP 4200 cells? How many of those who cry foul about brushless or LIPO have actually tried one?

If given the choice of running brushed or brushless, one of which requires very little maintenance and is consistent run to run, which one would most people choose? (same thing applies to LIPO)

The same argument applies to both brushless motors and LIPO. And before people say that they are 2 different things, the ultimate reasons behind not wanting both are essentially the same:
1) don't change the status quo
2) I already have all this equipment that will be worthless
3) brushless and lipo are both more expensive than brushed and nimh, etc.
4) different companies products are not comparable

When you break down these arguments, they don't stand up. If everyone buys the novak 13.5 sintered and the orion 3200 LIPO, everyone is pretty close to equal. I understand why the tuners and matchers don't want to change (adapt, whatever), but I don't wish anyone failure in their business, that would be childish, and wrong. BUT, if the only way they can succeed is to keep the status quo, that is something else entirely.

When the switch was made from nicad batteries to nimh, weren't the same issues involved?

Last edited by billjacobs; 03-15-2007 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 03-15-2007, 05:23 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billjacobs
I guess EddieO just can't stop picking fights with anyone who he thinks disagrees with him, or who he thinks wants to see his business fail.

I don't remember anyone wishing his business failure. He himself has stated numerous times that Brood will be getting into brushless (probably LIPO too given time <- he hasn't said that) So who wished what?

In the meantime, Eddie has picked a fight with Adrian, tallyrc, wild cherry, ....

I love the guy , really ...


I`v know um ever sense he memorize his first addition of R/c Car Action way back when ....
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:10 PM   #140
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Heh, Cherry has known me since I was in grade school....we barb at each other all the time....I still have that issue of rc car action too! Along with my summer sizzler trophies.....

Adrian I have known for years.....he gave me a call today.....so while I still think he lives in his own little world(which he admits to), I know now the real reason he is not with ROAR.....


And I have said many times I will be getting into lipo.....I already sell lipo stuff on my site, have for over a year.


Bill, you can do a search in all the brushless threads or related, and you will see numerous comments from the brushless fanatics saying horrid things about tuner companies and the like going out of business. Tallyrc's was more tame, but I and the rest of the companies are simply tired of the horrid attitude about it......same thing has happened in the lipo threads or discussions towards companies like SMC, etc....


Wallstreet, yer right.....I guess I will update it now.....I tried to do it about a year ago and could not fit all my national titles into it......doubt I would even come close now....I guess we win too much:P


Later EddieO
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Old 03-15-2007, 06:43 PM   #141
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Default responding to trollers

Eddie, the problem with responding to nameless, faceless, clueless trollers is that you only hurt your image by trying to retaliate. Most readers don't know your relationships with other racers, and take the bickering and in-fighting at its face. (Not positive for you or your company.)

Like many other company reps on this board, promote your products, celebrate your victories, and spread the word. But fighting back against trollers only encourages them. Anyway, what do you care if someone says this or that about the future. Do you really think their words will make any difference to your company?
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:26 PM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
I would absolutely agree with that. While they turn similar # of laps they get there a different way. Brushless is also at an advantage b/c of the maintenance aspect. If I dont keep up with the maintenance of my 27 stock then it becomes a dog quickly -- so while not relevant to the track it does play a part in the overall race experience (if you call what you do in the pits part of racing).
As do I. I was in the Brushless class at the Novak race, but before I bought my 13.5(which was at Trackside that week), I was running brushed motors & signed up for Stock Rubber, & I only brought one car to the race, so I ran a lot of both kinds of motor all week. And from my experience there, I will admit the 13.5 definitely DOES make more torque, but has nowhere near the rpm of a brushed motor, so you MUST gear up alot to make up for it. Plus, the 13.5 RADICALLY changed the feel of my car going into & out of corners, it's a bit like driving with one-ways for the first time, kept overshooting corner entries(I think I'm only just now getting comfortable with it, especially since my new car came with dual one-ways, so needles to say this thing REALLY rolls). But in the end my best runs with both were EXTREMELY close, much like Mike Nelson's results, in fact my bast laps with the 13.5 were only about .2 sec. faster than my best with a brushed motor(& it was a struggle to get them, at the time). Now that I'm more comfortable with it(& with my new ride, a 415 MSX), & I think I might be a tick faster consistently, but it's still VERY close(& I believe I still get more consistent laps with brushed). In the end, I think that evens things out between brushed & brushless motors, just like when we went from the P2K to the Monster(& traded torque for rpm), we had to adjust our cars & our driving to compensate, but as always, neither was neccessarily better than the other, just different. And I can also confirm that the 13.5 DOES make things easier in general, because I now am spending more time working on car setup & driving, rather than figuring out which of my half dozen or so brushed motors is best, what to tweak or how to gear it, whih ones need rebuilding, etc.......
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Old 03-15-2007, 08:31 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by escman
I would like to take this opportunity to answer Mr. Adrian Martinez’ post on Brushless knowledge.

My name is Adnan Khan and I am the designer of Novak’s brushless motors. I was the Novak representative at the ROAR meeting to discuss the Brushless motors, and Mr. Martinez asked me a specific question on another manufacturer’s motor. My answer was that I was not able to answer him without knowing all the details of the design.

This does not mean I do not know the working of a brushless motor. We have over seven years of design experience in Brushless motors design, and we use a high performance motor design program that was specially developed for Permanent Magnet Brushless DC motor development. Over the last seven years we have developed and tested many variation of our design and the program prediction is extremely close to the actual motor performance.

My engineering training and 26 plus years of practical design experience in aerospace and radio-control industry prevents me from making statement that I can not back with solid science. With this in mind, I told Mr. Martinez that I could not explain the difference in motors without knowing more detailed information about the design and materials of these motors.

We can predict the performance of our Brushless motor very accurately as we designed each motor from the ground up, and we know exactly what goes into our motors. We design and Dyno test our motors to fine tune the performance on a regular intervals. We also manufacture all of our motors on the premises, and we do not simply purchase motors from overseas vendors.

In term of motor performance, for a given size the motor performance is based on many variables such as motor stator size, magnetic material, air gap and the materials used to build the components. It is extremely difficult to predict performance without analyzing all the variables. The total power output is based on the motor constant. What that means is you can only get so much power from a 540 size motor for a given input power, and by changing one parameter to gain RPM or torque you have to give up something.
i'm down to three 27T motors and am looking at the lastest version of the 13.5 very hard. i found the 2 comments (bold above) very interesting indeed:

1. what kind of dyno is used to test this and what is the fine tuning that can be done? can one send in a BL to fine tune the performance on a regular intervals.

2. are different stator or rotor sizes the next step in BL hop-ups? to get different airgaps for torque or RPM applications?
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:01 PM   #144
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All of our dyno testing is done on custom built units.
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Old 03-17-2007, 05:05 AM   #145
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You're always gonna hit a raw nerve when mocking someone's career choice. So doing that won't help further the discussion.
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Old 03-17-2007, 06:26 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Weiss
All of our dyno testing is done on custom built units.
at the prototyping stages or do you build custom units for people?
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:32 AM   #147
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I hope you are still giving Scotty hell about the universal parts from your car to his, and i hope he doesnt get too dizzy looking down from that spur gear
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:25 AM   #148
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anybody know if the GTB/13.5 combo is shipping out with the new style motor?

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Old 03-20-2007, 11:30 AM   #149
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Tally- At this point these dynos are just for our own in-house use.
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Old 03-22-2007, 03:46 PM   #150
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I want to make sure of this before I purchas it the motor on Towers is the new one right? The title says it is but the picture isn't the and in the discription it doesn't say anything about a ribbed can or sintered rotor. Would just like to know before I buy it.
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