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Old 03-13-2007, 02:26 PM   #91
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Mal- I think you got the opposite of what I was trying to get accross. You want competition, step up to the plate. Go Race Barry, Ralph, Paul, Chris, etc. Let Billy and Jimmy get their experience moving up through the ranks. Like an amateur-type league, keep it simple. Don't sponsor people in this class in large amounts. By doing this you raise the cost to compete (not about better equipment, but rather more amounts of it) in the lower ranks, and put it out of skilled people, without that deep of a pocket's reach. You said it yourself, everyone wants to win, but people who are up and coming don't have unlimited resources, rather they have to come out of their pockets and spend a whole lot more money than the sponsored guy to compete in a class, which in its inception, the "ESSENCE" of it was the "Beginner's" Class. I find it funny that now a days it is probably harder to make an A-Main in Stock than in Modified. Not taking anything away from the stock or mod or 19t driver's again, I have been a sponsored driver in the past and understand what it is like. I now work for a manufacturer/distributor of small scale R/C equipment and see things in a slightly different light. I am concerned with the growth of the Hobby as a whole, not if I can make the A-Main here or there.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:27 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Scrubb
Where I see the problem is that "pro" level equipment is allowed in stock class. The exact same tires, batteries, chassis, and electronics are allowed. Even pro-tuned motors are allowed. If "pro" level equipment was banned, take for instance, Only use Mabuchi sealed endbell motors and unmatched 1800 batteries. If those were the required equipment for stock class, then how many battery and motor sponsored drivers would be in that class? Probably alot less. Another example would be if you only allowed the Novak 4300 brushless system in the class. That would weed out alot of the drivers sponsored by other speed control manufacturers like Tekin, LRP, and such. If your racing with professional level equipment, then expect professional level drivers. Nobody should expect the better drivers to get kicked out just so the slower drivers can win.

I always wonder why I don't see the professional drivers starting a thread about kicking the loser drivers out of certain classes. How come its always the losers that are getting beat that want to kick out the fast guys? Shouldn't the winners have greater say?
That must be why the pros are in the stock class. The really fast guys kicked them out of mod

I dont see a single post where someone is suggesting they want the fast guys out so they can win. I think people are just suggesting there is a bit of a natural break between the two types of drivers and make the distinction. For example where I club race we have a bunch of sponsored drivers. They are routinely 2 laps ahead of everyone else but all very competitive with each other. There are about 7-8 of those guys. Then there is a group of about 12-15 of us that are all around the same laps but 2 behind them. Not a single one of us is sponsored. Im guessing all around the country you would see similiar results. I think the non-sponsored guy just wants a class where they can race for fun and not worry about upsetting the fast guys in stock class for being too slow.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:28 PM   #93
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The pro level equipment is available to everyone. It's a non issue.

The mod guys don't complain about new guys in mod because they know that if they are better on that day they will win. Also, in mod, I think that people are more likely to move over for faster cars in qualifying. I've moved over for the best of them and sometimes the same "factory" guys have a bad run and they move over for me.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:30 PM   #94
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The pro level equipment is available to everyone. It's a non issue.

The mod guys don't complain about new guys in mod because they know that if they are better on that day they will win. Also, in mod, I think that people are more likely to move over for faster cars in qualifying. I've moved over for the best of them and sometimes the same "factory" guys have a bad run and they move over for me.
The difference on the equipment though is that if one person has to buy all the pro level equipment and someone else gets it for free or deeply discounted then the guy getting the sponsorship is at a big advantage.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:32 PM   #95
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By the way guys (and girls??) Im just playing devils advocate. No hard feelings. Like I said I find ways to enjoy the hobby despite all these concerns.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:35 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
The difference on the equipment though is that if one person has to buy all the pro level equipment and someone else gets it for free or deeply discounted then the guy getting the sponsorship is at a big advantage.
How do sponsored drivers get that way???? They drive really well with out getting all the stuff deeply discounted or free. Then they get the breaks once they've proven they can win. You can do it too. Spend all your free time practicing, spend all your current cash on the best stuff and then go beat top Pro drivers consistently at all the majors and you too can get what they have. They didn't just wake up one morning and have everything handed to them. They earned it.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:38 PM   #97
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or8ital;The beauty about a forum, is the definition of it in itself. I don't think anyone is to get their feelings hurt as long as we are trying to work for the betterment OUR hobby/pastime/livelyhood. I think overall, eveyone wants bigger turnouts, more sales, better drivers, more fun. This forum opens the discussion on how to get there.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:38 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by or8ital
Didnt you say sponsored drivers arent as competitive as the full-ride factory guys? I dont understand why then sponsored and non-sponsored arent different?
No, I said full factory guys have an advanatage because they race for a living.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:42 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
How do sponsored drivers get that way???? They drive really well with out getting all the stuff deeply discounted or free. Then they get the breaks once they've proven they can win. You can do it too. Spend all your free time practicing, spend all your current cash on the best stuff and then go beat top Pro drivers consistently at all the majors and you too can get what they have. They didn't just wake up one morning and have everything handed to them. They earned it.
Now they just have to prove themselves by racing against the "Best of the Best" in Modified Class. Since they invested their time and money and now they get it free and cost isn't an issue anymore, go race with the big boys. I'm not referring to people who merely have a battery or motor sponsorship either, I mean full ride drivers (just to clear it up, I'm not pointing fingers at the drivers either, they do what they need to earn cash, again I point it out to manufacturers to take ownership and be responsible for the hobby which keeps them in business).
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:43 PM   #100
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My question is, are these so called paid or sponsored stock racers going faster because they got something given to them, or were paid after racing stock that particular weekend? I kinda of doubt it, but there are exceptions I guess.

The common misconception is that sponsored/paid drivers (in any form of racing) get better equipment and cannot be beat because of it. In my experience, this is not always true.



I think everyone here can agree on one thing though. This thread is very entertaining.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:44 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
What do you think a nationals is? You're suppose to race against the best at a national race. There is no way in hell I would pay $700+ for travel and expenses to race against a bunch of no name scrubs.

If u want to run against the best then your in the wrong class,you need to be runnin' mod so you can become 1 of the those scrubs in mod. you sandbagger
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:51 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
That must be why the pros are in the stock class. The really fast guys kicked them out of mod

I dont see a single post where someone is suggesting they want the fast guys out so they can win. I think people are just suggesting there is a bit of a natural break between the two types of drivers and make the distinction. For example where I club race we have a bunch of sponsored drivers. They are routinely 2 laps ahead of everyone else but all very competitive with each other. There are about 7-8 of those guys. Then there is a group of about 12-15 of us that are all around the same laps but 2 behind them. Not a single one of us is sponsored. Im guessing all around the country you would see similiar results. I think the non-sponsored guy just wants a class where they can race for fun and not worry about upsetting the fast guys in stock class for being too slow.
At my old track we had three classes . Mod/19t, stock and sportsman. Sportsman was the class for people who took racing casually or simply didn't want to race against the faster drivers.

After 4 years those sportsman drivers are still 2-3 laps slower than the fast guys. Guess what happened to the guys who chose to race with the faster guys? They eventually improved and went from being lapped 2-3 times to being on the same lap.

My point, guys who don't like racing against faster competition shouldn't be racing at the national level.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:53 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by CShearburn
My question is, are these so called paid or sponsored stock racers going faster because they got something given to them, or were paid after racing stock that particular weekend? I kinda of doubt it, but there are exceptions I guess.

The common misconception is that sponsored/paid drivers (in any form of racing) get better equipment and cannot be beat because of it. In my experience, this is not always true.



I think everyone here can agree on one thing though. This thread is very entertaining.
They dont have to pay for equipment so they dont need to get a second job to get theirs and therefore have more time to practice resulting in them getting better and more sponsorships j/k....

No doubt that practice and skill is what it takes and that takes time. Equipment will only help to a point. I think it would be impossible to say though that a guy getting stuff for free isnt (even if only the slightlest bit) at an advantage over those that dont.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:53 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CShearburn
My question is, are these so called paid or sponsored stock racers going faster because they got something given to them, or were paid after racing stock that particular weekend? I kinda of doubt it, but there are exceptions I guess.

The common misconception is that sponsored/paid drivers (in any form of racing) get better equipment and cannot be beat because of it. In my experience, this is not always true.



I think everyone here can agree on one thing though. This thread is very entertaining.
Equipment might be the difference between 1st and fifth, but not between A and B, generally speaking the cream rises to the top.

I think that anyone who is opposed to "pro" guys in stock is trying to get to, is that if a company thinks you are good enough to be sponsored, you should be good enough to compete against the "best of the best", not the "best of the rest". Make the modified class what it used to be, 1 lap separating the A-D main. Instead only top to bottom of the A. These guys winning in stock will still place racing in mod, it will just take a little more work.

And I agree, this thread is very entertaining.
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Old 03-13-2007, 02:55 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
At my old track we had three classes . Mod/19t, stock and sportsman. Sportsman was the class for people who took racing casually or simply didn't want to race against the faster drivers.

After 4 years those sportsman drivers are still 2-3 laps slower than the fast guys. Guess what happened to the guys who chose to race with the faster guys? They eventually improved and went from being lapped 2-3 times to being on the same lap.

My point, guys who don't like racing against faster competition shouldn't be racing at the national level.
Man your logic is so bad. Why dont these pro stock drivers move up to mod so they can compete with them? For the same reason those guys dont move up to mod is the same reason non-pro Stock racers dont want to race with Pro Stock racers.
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