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Old 03-18-2007, 04:52 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Scrubb
Drag racers have kept their motors together for decades with more voltage and rpm, it wasn't to keep motors together, it was to keep motor and brush wear down.
First of all, yeah there were plenty of motors that blew. And now all the sudden it's to keep motor wear down? I thought you said it was to help the average guy race mod?

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Originally Posted by Scrubb
The average guys couldn't keep up with a 10 turn spec modified class, can't keep up in a 19 turn spec class, and can't keep up in a stock spec class either.
Doesn't something seem wrong with this? This is a hobby supported by the hobbyist, not the 20 guys who have a chance at the main. Don't we want to keep the bottom class for the guys who are still working on their skills?

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Originally Posted by Scrubb
There is a class for people to start racing in, its called novice class, and its also the lower mains in every class, remember what qualifing is for? To seperate the drivers by their ability.
So lets just run modified, you can use any motor, 27t up to 6t. That will eliminate the need for all these classes. Seriously, the biggest problem is the hypocrisy of people who have no problem hanging around in stock forever, but won't move up to 19t or mod, and face the same situation that the average guy does in stock. There needs to be some kind of ladder to move up.

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Originally Posted by Scrubb
If new racers are getting intimidated, its because the track dosen't offer a freindly atmosphere to new customers, its because the average seasoned racers are running them over.
Does your track have a novice class?

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Originally Posted by Scrubb
When are the pro's running over racers? When are the pro's setting a bad example and making racing look bad?
If you have been doing this for 24 years you have seen this yourself.

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Originally Posted by Scrubb
For the last 24 years I've been racing, everybody has looked up to the pro's and aspired to drive like them.

Their are plenty of means to encourage and promote entry level drivers, blame the track owners for the lack of that. The pro drivers make stock class look good.
Yeah by looks of touring car racing right now we're doing great
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Old 03-18-2007, 06:44 PM   #242
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I always thought of "Stock" Racing as a Class where the Racers all had the Same Equipment. Same Batteries Same Motors similar Horsepower. That is Definitely not the case. I know I know it's not Horsepower it's all Driving Get a Life and get in Modified.

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Old 03-19-2007, 07:36 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Team Kwik
This post got me thinking so I wandered over to look at how aviation competition works out. Ladies and gentleman they have found the answer! In my travels I came across the 2006 nationals scores and within lies the key!

http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/...utdoor2006.htm

All we need to do is create so many classes that everyone can win.
Brilliant if I must say so.

Nick
I just wanted to point out that at these nationals there are only 2 RC RACING classes....Q-40 and Q-500. CL and FF are not Remote Controlled classes....so you can throw them out the window. If you waned to compare the two RC RACING classes at the AMA Nats to RC CAR Racing then you can do that.....look at Q-40 and Q-500Ö.and in these two classes they are extremely fast planes 180+MPH and everyone races each other. But Iím going to guess that you donít know much about RC/CL/FF planes. Yes there is a ton of classes but there are for more things to do with Planes then there are to do with Cars....unless you want a national event for Parallel parking, Scale Driving, Endurance, Controlled spin outs etc.... Also donít forget that the AMA has a ton more people in it then ROAR so more classes isnít as big of a deal.....also the AMA has Jr(13 and under), Sr(14 to 17), and Open(18+) divisions for many of its classes. I understand the point you were looking to make but I just wanted to point out that you used to broad of a brush stroke to paint your picture.
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Old 03-19-2007, 07:58 AM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K
I just wanted to point out that at these nationals there are only 2 RC RACING classes....Q-40 and Q-500. CL and FF are not Remote Controlled classes....so you can throw them out the window. If you waned to compare the two RC RACING classes at the AMA Nats to RC CAR Racing then you can do that.....look at Q-40 and Q-500Ö.and in these two classes they are extremely fast planes 180+MPH and everyone races each other. But Iím going to guess that you donít know much about RC/CL/FF planes. Yes there is a ton of classes but there are for more things to do with Planes then there are to do with Cars....unless you want a national event for Parallel parking, Scale Driving, Endurance, Controlled spin outs etc.... Also donít forget that the AMA has a ton more people in it then ROAR so more classes isnít as big of a deal.....also the AMA has Jr(13 and under), Sr(14 to 17), and Open(18+) divisions for many of its classes. I understand the point you were looking to make but I just wanted to point out that you used to broad of a brush stroke to paint your picture.
It sounds like they have more than made it fair for everyone, from age to skill level, from club to factory. Maybe this is why they have such a turn out.
I wonder if there's a lot of arguing about fairness. Whats wrong with more classes? Its all racing. I would guess from this side of the fence that more classes are more people?
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Old 03-19-2007, 08:13 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Kevin K
Also donít forget that the AMA has a ton more people in it then ROAR so more classes isnít as big of a deal.
Is there just more interest in that hobby or do the more classes bring more people? Hmmmm Wish we knew...
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:12 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by UN4RACING
It sounds like they have more than made it fair for everyone, from age to skill level, from club to factory. Maybe this is why they have such a turn out.
I wonder if there's a lot of arguing about fairness. Whats wrong with more classes? Its all racing. I would guess from this side of the fence that more classes are more people?

I have been to plenty of AMA nationals as well as ROAR nationals. The way the AMA nationals are structured I guess you can say they are more fair. Also you have the chance to build your own plane where with Cars thats hard to do for the average person. There isnt many "Teams" other then Radio manufacturers and even then they are not like the teams that are in Cars.....that might be the biggest factor why there is no bitching and moaning about silly things. They still have bitching and moaning but its about other things....everyone will bitch and moan no matter what you are doing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
Is there just more interest in that hobby or do the more classes bring more people? Hmmmm Wish we knew...
There might be more interest but also the AMA forces people to be members if you want to use their flying fields. And you can be an AMA member and fly a plane at a Park and get some sort of insurance coverage for any damage you may cause. The AMA has been around a lot longer so it has a stronger following and there are many generations of families that are in the AMA....the same cant really be said for ROAR as itís young in comparison to the AMA.
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:19 AM   #247
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Should Pro Drivers Be Racing In Stock?
Maybe it should really be...

Should Stock Drivers really be called Pro?


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Old 03-19-2007, 10:25 AM   #248
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[QUOTE=Kevin K]everyone will bitch and moan no matter what you are doing. [QUOTE]

And that is why this is "just another topic" to me
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:53 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K
I just wanted to point out that at these nationals there are only 2 RC RACING classes....Q-40 and Q-500. CL and FF are not Remote Controlled classes....so you can throw them out the window. If you waned to compare the two RC RACING classes at the AMA Nats to RC CAR Racing then you can do that.....look at Q-40 and Q-500Ö.and in these two classes they are extremely fast planes 180+MPH and everyone races each other. But Iím going to guess that you donít know much about RC/CL/FF planes.
I understand perfectly well that CL and FF are not RC classes. When I looked over this page I went through every single RC class thinking that this would paint me a good picture of national level flying. The Q-40 and Q-500 classes are made up of 142 entries. While our ROAR national races leave something to be desired looking at a truly popular event, Vegas for example, stock touring and stock 12th scale was composed of 121 entries. Take all of the 19t and mod racers not to mention those entered in the rubber classes at this event and I would say we are talking pretty close to the same number of people attending these competitions. Of course, based on the data I have in front of me. I know the AMA is giant, where are the people?

As for 180mph planes, I would hate for people to take this out of context. To point out the obvious, you are in the air! You know as well as I do that it's relative, a 50mph touring car on a 6ft lane is scary, period.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin K
Yes there is a ton of classes but there are for more things to do with Planes then there are to do with Cars....unless you want a national event for Parallel parking, Scale Driving, Endurance, Controlled spin outs etc.... Also donít forget that the AMA has a ton more people in it then ROAR so more classes isnít as big of a deal.....also the AMA has Jr(13 and under), Sr(14 to 17), and Open(18+) divisions for many of its classes.
I can appreciate the classes for many different things in aviation, I really can. When I look through the nationals points I see empty classes and literally classes with 2 people in them. I understand the AMA is larger than ROAR but is that being reflected in national event attendance? The data in front of me would suggest what could be considered a HORRIBLE turnout given the size of the membership. Perhaps they have some problems to address?

I didn't know they split the classes up even more, are you saying that of the 142 entries from the nationals shown on that website that there are really 3 winners in each class? This just goes even further to prove my point and help paint my picture. Please correct me if I am wrong here, all I have to look at is the data.

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Originally Posted by Kevin K
I understand the point you were looking to make but I just wanted to point out that you used to broad of a brush stroke to paint your picture.
I did in fact use a very very broad brush. I guess I am increasingly frustrated with the concept of diluting our classes to the point everyone can be a trophy winner. Taking the top 20 guys out of stock would in my eyes simply mean that next year's winner got a 21st place trophy.

Just my 2 cents,
Nick
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:56 AM   #250
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They still have bitching and moaning but its about other things....everyone will bitch and moan no matter what you are doing.
I think this pretty much wraps it all up. If someone were to force the fastest stock racers to run mod there would be another one of these threads within 24 hours on another random topic.

Nick
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:24 AM   #251
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I didn't know they split the classes up even more, are you saying that of the 142 entries from the nationals shown on that website that there are really 3 winners in each class? This just goes even further to prove my point and help paint my picture. Please correct me if I am wrong here, all I have to look at is the data.
In the Racing classes Q-40 and Q-500 everyone races each other....they award the highest Jr and Sr competitors in the class....and the top 10 Overall along with Fast time (TQ). In other classes mainly FF and CL they do award the top 3 in Jr. and Sr. There is a ton of classes that are old and not many people still compete in them but the AMA still keeps them around as tradition and they do vote on them to keep them around.

Maybe a better correlation would be to compare the AMA nationals to ROAR nationals is by looking at them both in this regard.....Both Planes and Cars have a ton of people doing them as a hobby yet not very many show for national events. Not everyone is super competitive so you can look at the amount of people that show up for the AMA nationals and say that there is about 100 to 200 or more other people for every single every 1 entry at the AMA Nationals....just like you can say that there is probably 75 to 100 other people that play with RC cars for every 1 entry at a big event. The fact that this shows is that not everyone wants to race or be competitive. So I donít think that the teams in RC car racing are ruining it by having ďProĒ stock racersÖ..maybe these guys just need a system in place to where they can truly move up and or at the same time this is the Nationals if they want to race this class let them. So looking at them this way you can see how they are both similar.

Yes speed is relativeÖ.and 180Mph 10 feet off the ground in 3 dimensions is harder then 50 mph in 8 foot lanes in 2 dimensionsÖ.

To many people in society these days are looking for instant gratification and canít take it when someone else puts in more hard work then them and has more talent then them. So thatís why these threads pop up all the time but there is still something to these guys moving up a class to prove something to them selves. Otherwise there would be 20 year olds playing little league if they didnít have rules in place to make people move on. Iím not saying that people have to move on but some sort of ladder or something system in place to get more of the better racers to race the ďbetterĒ classes would be nice to see as a spectatorís point of view.
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Old 03-19-2007, 11:32 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by gijoe64
After the carpet nats, I have seen the same guys winning stock. Should this class be for the average racer? Or the up and commer? I know this topic has been covered but when you get the same sponsered drivers winning a class that was designed for the racer that could not compete with pro drivers, should ROAR let this keep happening?
How do you define a "Pro Driver"?
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Old 03-19-2007, 12:02 PM   #253
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I just dont get it.

Complain Complain.

Your slow because you suck...you dont win because you suck....you cant make top 30 at a nationals because you suck....it is that simple.

I just dont get why people have such a hard time accepting this.

I have raced club raced with top guys over the years (Dumas, Smyka and now Langlois and Strasnick) Equipment doesnt matter it is only a small part of a total package...like 10%. I have used their cars,batteries etc. The equipment is not making the difference. If you can run .1-.2 in laps times against them then it may be the batteries and motor etc other than that it is YOU!

Your slow because you lack the skill and knowledge to go faster or drive faster.

It is not rocket science. Lots of practice equals results. The other drivers in the class and the equipment are not the problem..it is you. Look at a guy like Jarrod Langlois...he put in a ton of hours and guess what he won the stock nats.

You know what they say...the first part to solving the problem is admitting you have one.

Repeat....I am slow because I suck....accept it and move on.

Jamie
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Old 03-19-2007, 01:57 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by senna555
I just dont get it.

Complain Complain.

Your slow because you suck...you dont win because you suck....you cant make top 30 at a nationals because you suck....it is that simple.

I just dont get why people have such a hard time accepting this.

I have raced club raced with top guys over the years (Dumas, Smyka and now Langlois and Strasnick) Equipment doesnt matter it is only a small part of a total package...like 10%. I have used their cars,batteries etc. The equipment is not making the difference. If you can run .1-.2 in laps times against them then it may be the batteries and motor etc other than that it is YOU!

Your slow because you lack the skill and knowledge to go faster or drive faster.

It is not rocket science. Lots of practice equals results. The other drivers in the class and the equipment are not the problem..it is you. Look at a guy like Jarrod Langlois...he put in a ton of hours and guess what he won the stock nats.

You know what they say...the first part to solving the problem is admitting you have one.

Repeat....I am slow because I suck....accept it and move on.

Jamie

well said
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Old 03-19-2007, 02:19 PM   #255
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Making a comparison to AMA Pro Motocross is a good place to start. Our hobby may be ready to establish a ranking and qualfying system for national level events. I also feel it may be time to run 20 car main events. It would require much larger tracks but would open up a whole new world of rc racing. Talk about first turn wrecks, holy cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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