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Old 03-15-2007, 09:31 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Scrubb
would it make a difference if a privateer racer was winning all the big stock class races? Would you still want to kick out a talented self funded racer? What if that racer simply wasn't intrested in running anything other than stock class? Should they be kicked out of a class that they are intrested in?

When did ROAR ever say that "stock class" was an amateur class? How do you have an amateur national championship? Would that make the best stock drivers professional amateurs?

The only thing that defined stock class was a spec 27 turn single wind motor locked at 24 degrees timing with bushings. Just because a class uses a spec motor does not make it an amateur class. If you want an amatuer class, then start separating the classes by skill level, not by equipment. Novice, Amatuer, and Professional.

Good points. And if you really want to wrap around a bizzare scenario. Let's look at anybody with kids. "TECHNICALLY", most kids have a 100% full ride. All parts, travel, hotel, ALL PAID, So, are they pro's? They ain't paying for anything.
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Old 03-15-2007, 10:00 PM   #212
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Manufacturer's are going to invest a certain amount of time and money in what gives them the best return. Right now the best return seems to be TC and Onroad in general. At large, well advertised events you are going to see them try to get all the exopsure they can. This means as many team drivers the can stuff into as many classes as they can. IF they had 4 team drivers that they paid to fly them in, paid for room and board you bet they are going to have them in every class they can to get a better return on their dolllar. Even if this may cost them in the long run.

Back to the original topic. I'd say let them run in whatever class they want/need to. If I'm attending a National Event then I expect to be judged by National talent. In my opinion this is one of the main reasons I would attend this event. If you are a privateer and you're trying to make a living in this industry, spend more time in school! It will make you more money in the long run and you can take it with you when you go. Kudos for all of you making it now dont' get me wrong.

My only "complaint" is that you can get a "pro" driver who just never seems to move up into the "premier" classes of Mod. The concentration level, skill level, and set up skills needed for this class are superior just like their full size counter parts. It would be like having a highly skilled 125 MX racer that never even tries to bump up to the 250 class simply because he may not have the skill to do so.

Bottom line is that we as the consumer drive the industry and WE are ALL responsible for it. You want Mod to be the premier class, start running it! The manufacturer's will sell more motors, brushes. Demand will be met with supply or the manufacturer's will not survive.
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Old 03-16-2007, 06:58 AM   #213
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its funny that Mod is the premier class...however there isnt one dicussion on the whole first page about Modified anything..
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Old 03-16-2007, 08:29 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by 1fastguy1
its funny that Mod is the premier class...however there isnt one dicussion on the whole first page about Modified anything..
Mo


Mod definitely is the premier class because only a few seem to know how to drive a modified car properly.
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Old 03-16-2007, 09:45 AM   #215
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very few
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Old 03-16-2007, 12:40 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrubb
would it make a difference if a privateer racer was winning all the big stock class races? Would you still want to kick out a talented self funded racer? What if that racer simply wasn't intrested in running anything other than stock class? Should they be kicked out of a class that they are intrested in?

When did ROAR ever say that "stock class" was an amateur class? How do you have an amateur national championship? Would that make the best stock drivers professional amateurs?

The only thing that defined stock class was a spec 27 turn single wind motor locked at 24 degrees timing with bushings. Just because a class uses a spec motor does not make it an amateur class. If you want an amatuer class, then start separating the classes by skill level, not by equipment. Novice, Amatuer, and Professional.
Totally see your points scrub. But again, what I believe bothers people (and myself as somebody that works in the industry and wants to see it grow) is the fact that stock is the slower class. (I know Bob quoted back there how motors are much faster now than before and it is true, but also the cars and equipment are better, making them much more controllable.) Inherintely, the slower class = where the less advanced people participate. And this is an argument that is entirely bi-partisan, sort of like politics. You can either interpret the rules in a conservative maner to the T, or interpreting what people were trying to infer when writing the rule. This is how I see the No Stock and Mod in the Same Category at a National rule. Whenever it was established, there were very few sponsored guys running in stock at a National. ROAR wanted to keep them out of the slower classes, as an entity that is responsible for promotion and development of the Hobby, it was the right move at the time. Unfortunately, you can't look into the future and see what was coming. Back then, manufacturers didn't care about sponsoring stock drivers very much, and if they did, they quickly expected them to move up to the higher categories.

As far as Kids being Pro's, c'mon. That is a weak point. Their parents are still paying for them and they still have to spend the money, bad comparison, really bad.

Finally it is very true that very few people that can control a modified car well. But these guys running stock and winning all the time are some of those few. If anyone believes otherwise, they are truly fooling themselves.
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Old 03-16-2007, 01:27 PM   #217
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Yes, the privateer dominating stock should be forced to move up. This works well for the IMAC plane competitions. And I assure you that the planes required to be at a competitive level in the upper classes are more expensive than cars could ever be. Let's see a $1000 for the plane, $1000 for a motor, $1000 for electronics, $400 minimum for a radio, and then there's the trailer to transport it in. And the plane is a kit so a minimum of about 300 hours worth of build time.

Please see rule 9.1 on page 4 of
http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/07...aerobatics.pdf

"9.1. A contestant may enter any one competition class at their own option. Once entered, a contestant may not move down in class without written permission from their regional director. Should their class not be offered at a contest, the contestant may enter the next highest class, and then return to their normal class at the next contest where their normal class is offered. If a Basic thru Advanced class contestant wins 5 contests with 4 or more competitors in a calendar year, they must advance to the next higher class at the beginning of the next calender year."
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:07 PM   #218
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electric on road forum
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:28 PM   #219
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It doesn't matter what forum it is. IMAC is a competition just like Electric on-road is a competition.
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Old 03-16-2007, 02:53 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTolle
Yes, the privateer dominating stock should be forced to move up. This works well for the IMAC plane competitions. And I assure you that the planes required to be at a competitive level in the upper classes are more expensive than cars could ever be. Let's see a $1000 for the plane, $1000 for a motor, $1000 for electronics, $400 minimum for a radio, and then there's the trailer to transport it in. And the plane is a kit so a minimum of about 300 hours worth of build time.

Please see rule 9.1 on page 4 of
http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/07...aerobatics.pdf

"9.1. A contestant may enter any one competition class at their own option. Once entered, a contestant may not move down in class without written permission from their regional director. Should their class not be offered at a contest, the contestant may enter the next highest class, and then return to their normal class at the next contest where their normal class is offered. If a Basic thru Advanced class contestant wins 5 contests with 4 or more competitors in a calendar year, they must advance to the next higher class at the beginning of the next calender year."

That's a sure fire way to make people leave the hobby. Yep, force people who pay for their own stuff into a more expensive class.
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Old 03-16-2007, 03:18 PM   #221
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Man this thread is going strong......In my opinion and yes that is exactly what this is I think there should be no more stock racing @ the Nats..!!!!!I think that stock is the most pointless class at a national.

#1. Its the only class that causes drama.
#2. They have to have special tools for the cheaters
#3. More work for the tech peaple all together.
#4. Ect.......

I think stock and 19t should be left for club racing....
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Old 03-16-2007, 03:59 PM   #222
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"Should Pro Drivers Be Racing Stock?"

The answer is NO.

Real world example: Bush Series = BAD

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Old 03-16-2007, 04:25 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zedrc
Man this thread is going strong......In my opinion and yes that is exactly what this is I think there should be no more stock racing @ the Nats..!!!!!I think that stock is the most pointless class at a national.

#1. Its the only class that causes drama.
#2. They have to have special tools for the cheaters
#3. More work for the tech peaple all together.
#4. Ect.......

I think stock and 19t should be left for club racing....
Interesting take. I could kinda buy that.
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Old 03-16-2007, 04:31 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTolle
Yes, the privateer dominating stock should be forced to move up. This works well for the IMAC plane competitions. And I assure you that the planes required to be at a competitive level in the upper classes are more expensive than cars could ever be. Let's see a $1000 for the plane, $1000 for a motor, $1000 for electronics, $400 minimum for a radio, and then there's the trailer to transport it in. And the plane is a kit so a minimum of about 300 hours worth of build time.

Please see rule 9.1 on page 4 of
http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/07...aerobatics.pdf

"9.1. A contestant may enter any one competition class at their own option. Once entered, a contestant may not move down in class without written permission from their regional director. Should their class not be offered at a contest, the contestant may enter the next highest class, and then return to their normal class at the next contest where their normal class is offered. If a Basic thru Advanced class contestant wins 5 contests with 4 or more competitors in a calendar year, they must advance to the next higher class at the beginning of the next calender year."
This post got me thinking so I wandered over to look at how aviation competition works out. Ladies and gentleman they have found the answer! In my travels I came across the 2006 nationals scores and within lies the key!

http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/...utdoor2006.htm

All we need to do is create so many classes that everyone can win.
Brilliant if I must say so.

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Old 03-16-2007, 04:37 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zedrc
Man this thread is going strong......In my opinion and yes that is exactly what this is I think there should be no more stock racing @ the Nats..!!!!!I think that stock is the most pointless class at a national.

#1. Its the only class that causes drama.
#2. They have to have special tools for the cheaters
#3. More work for the tech peaple all together.
#4. Ect.......

I think stock and 19t should be left for club racing....
I have been doing this for a very long time and there is no way on earth I could hold on to a mod car. I would spend buckets of money in broken parts, cracked bodies and god only knows what my tire bill would be. Thank god the race organizers and tech staff wouldn't have to put in any effort.

I have been trying to figure out what #4 on your list is? The only thing you have left out that would ruin my week more than being forced to race mod would be a handout kick to the groin.

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