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Old 11-21-2001, 08:03 AM   #16
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That too. Realistic.
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Old 11-21-2001, 08:20 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by acloco
Rubber expensive? How so? Just browsing tower..........29.99 for one PAIR of mounted foams. Then add in a tire truer........

A set of four mounted rubber tires is $44 to $48.....including wheels, inserts, tire.......etc.
Even the most expensive local hobby shop in this area sells foams for less than $20 a pair, mounted. Jaco, TRC, all at like $16.79. That comes to under $37 for four tires.

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As soon as a foam tire is chunked it is done. Or the rim cracked.....or......or.........
As soon as you've put ONE run on a set of rubber tires they're slower. And slower by a bit for each successive run. Never mind if you build up a set of rubber tires and you didn't get the right insert or rim for that particular time of day or phase of the moon. Then they just don't work at all.

We have a few sponsored drivers in this area too. I go to an outdoor race I see them building a brand new set of tires for each run if the racing is at all close. Three heats and a main, that's nearly a $200 tire bill for ONE race day for the privateers to try and match.

A set of foams runs pretty much the same from the first run to the last.

I'm not saying ROAR should force anyone to use foams, but I'd like the option to be there.

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Old 11-21-2001, 08:22 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aurra Sing
I like rubber better because it's just more convenient. I don't care about handling as long as everyones equal. Plus, it's more realistic.
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Originally posted by Isaac
That too. Realistic.
You guys will have to explain to me how rubber tires are more realistic than foams.

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Old 11-21-2001, 08:29 AM   #19
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Real touring cars don't run on foams thats all. That's the realistic part I guess. Hey some like foams and some like rubber. I prefer rubber tires; that's me. You prefer foam tires; that's you maybe. I run both. If guys are faster with the foams heck yea I'm throwing on a set!

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Old 11-21-2001, 08:38 AM   #20
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i like the rubber tires.....it is more realistic.....and ya at a larger event i might go through 2 or three sets of rubber, but i run those for months and months at club races.....that is for carpet....on aphault i like the sorex 36....i can run a bout 4 racedays on the tires.....then i use them for practice..

with foam, you are always trueing, chunking, cracking rims, changing ridehight, all that stuff....i want to stay with rubber.....i think this vote will kill sedan racing.....
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Old 11-21-2001, 09:20 AM   #21
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my .02

Foams seems to be the ticket on the smooth well prepared track, on a parkinglot so-so surface, maybe not. I think the issue here is people are used to running one or the other, and do not want to be forced to run both to be competive. Personally I run rubber where I race, cause it eats up foams in one race night. I buy a set of tires.. maybe once a month... maybe 6 weeks.,Take-Off's of 32 or 37 variety and the performance is close enough from run to run for the entire life of the tire.

This really is an old arguement that will never be finished. My opionion is that FOAMS an any touring car is going to kill the class. We have enough variables to deal with, now foams or rubber..to much. Just go back to pan cars, and as far as Nitro TC.. If I have to buy foams, well I am just gonna jump to 10th On-road and go faster. We as racers want to be competetive and will do what it takes to be so, and if we cannot afford a class due to Tires,Motors, ETC we wil find a class we can. Pan Cars and F1 are making a small comeback, wonder why ?
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Old 11-21-2001, 09:27 AM   #22
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Gosh....I guess the guys that believe rubber is the way to go has probabaly not raced any big races. At the carpet nats, I went through all of these tires:

6 pairs of Yok 138G w/ non repulsion inserts
8pairs of Yok 138G w/med inserts
8 pairs of Yok 138G w/firm inserts.

that's $150 in tires right there
about $77 in inserts
about $40 in wheels

That's over $250 in tires/inserts that I will never use again. I was hunting for the setup, the traction conditions were changing., rubbers would loose their uselfullness after 2 runs.

By comparison at the Trinity Challenge back in January at the same track, I went through about 4 full sets of jaco foams.

There is a need for rubbers, maybe with your significant other, but not on the track. LOL!!!!!!
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Old 11-21-2001, 10:20 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Isaac
Real touring cars don't run on foams thats all.
Real touring cars don't have molded rubber inserts in their tires, and their tires aren't glued to plastic rims either.

Real touring cars go through BIG $$$$$ in tires though, so I suppose that part is more realistic.

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Old 11-21-2001, 10:27 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by mr. losi
on aphault i like the sorex 36....i can run a bout 4 racedays on the tires.....then i use them for practice..
I've never gotten 4 race days out of a set of rubber tires. Maybe 4 or 5 runs at best, then they were noticeably slower.

In the NY/NJ area we don't enjoy the grippy smooth tracks like the west coast racers. Our tracks are typically not very grippy and pretty abrasive. Even Sorex 36's are pretty much shot after maybe 5 runs. Note that when I say shot I mean the tire is maybe 2 or 3 tenths slower per lap than new.

Let me also add that I haven't raced foam on any outdoor tracks. I could very well find that the foams wear a lot quicker than rubber. All I want is the choice of which tire to run.

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Old 11-21-2001, 10:58 AM   #25
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2 or 3 tenths means you some life left in those tires. I'm competitive but man I like money in my pocket. Heck if you were to race like that yes you'd be spending big money on tires. The whole money thing really is starting to me though when I think about what I could be doing with it. Oh real touring car don't use .12 gas motors or P2K's either but they do share carbon fiber and rubber tires. Like I said you run your foam and if it's that much quicker that day I'll pull mine out too. I just "prefer" rubber tires.
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Old 11-21-2001, 12:38 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Isaac
2 or 3 tenths means you some life left in those tires. I'm competitive but man I like money in my pocket. Heck if you were to race like that yes you'd be spending big money on tires. The whole money thing really is starting to me though when I think about what I could be doing with it. Oh real touring car don't use .12 gas motors or P2K's either but they do share carbon fiber and rubber tires. Like I said you run your foam and if it's that much quicker that day I'll pull mine out too. I just "prefer" rubber tires.
Isaac,

I think we might just agree to disagree on this issue...

On another note, I see you're from Maryland. Do you ever run at The Track in Gaithersburg? My buddy Chris Miller is trying to get me to do a road trip down there one weekend soon. Do they run rubber or foam on the carpet? 4 minute or 5 minute mod?

Thanks,

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Old 11-21-2001, 12:40 PM   #27
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They run foams indoors except for the TCS race I believe. Now I feel that foam is ok on carpet. LOL
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Old 11-21-2001, 01:33 PM   #28
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well to say that i have no been to any big races would be false, i have been in the amain at the midwest touring car championships for the last two years....last year, used a pair of old tires to practice, and one set for qual, and one set for the mains.....the main tires have three runs and are still in the box, the quall tiresi still club race with, to say that .2 or .3 makes a tire shot then i guess you can rack up the money, i use my older tires till the belts show, for club races.....you have to diferentiate between a large event and a club race, if you want to win, yes then buy tires every week, but i like most have a budget and do not spend money on tires every week....
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Old 11-21-2001, 04:54 PM   #29
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I'm on a budget too, but I will do whatever I have to do to run on the pace. My experience on rubber tires is that 4 or 5 runs is pretty much all the useful life I get and I'm buying a new set. On foams I can run 4 or 5 race days on the same set of tires and I'm on the pace the whole time.

Bear in mind, I've only run outdoors on rubber, and I've only run foam on carpet. For all I know. rubber might last as long or longer on carpet as foams, and for all I know, foams might be toast in two or three runs on the asphalt.

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Old 11-21-2001, 06:33 PM   #30
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I like the vote both ways. I used to be pro rubber guy here til I tried foams. Here you can race anything on asphalt. I just raced my 138G's. Beat a guy with foams. Thought that was cool. Then got beat at the next race by a better guy with foams. Mind you I was racing my same 138G. Next race I came back with foams and won. Wear was pretty good on them. Better than my 138G. Cheaper at that. Anyways, I'm pro foam now. But asphalt season is up and now it's carpet. So I'll be running those same foams on carpet (2 races this weekend... could make it 3.. but too much driving hehe.)

Anyways, I think money can be saved with foams. With rubbers, it seems to depend on season, temp, conditions, and track. So that's alot of money. They may work for some. But it would be better (in my opinion) if they ran a spec tire (for local tracks) to keep cost down. This way we don't spend all that money to find the right combo of insert/tire. Of course ask the fast guys and buy what they have.

It's all opinion. Like what was said here before, it's an age ol debate which will always be around. Certain tracks will fair better with one tire than the other. So.. blah blah blah. I don't think touring car will die because of this..... Just wishful thinking... Remember, local tracks CAN make their own rules for club races.....

I like the 10t rule as well. Even though with todays batteries you can run hotter motors, I think this will even alot of things out. Hell, Europe or Britain has a 12 turn rule.. so don't complain! Hehe. Plus this will help alot of people who fry their ESC's hehe. Not me though.....

Now what about them Brushless motors..........

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