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Old 02-24-2004, 09:49 AM   #91
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Yeah southernfried, he's probally geared more for the infield and not the straight...lol. No I see your point where you are implying driving is far more superior to wining than a faster motor but that only rings true if there is a bunch of guys that really cannot drive consistant laps. Take for instance, you get a bunch a guys where they all turn high 9's to low 10's every lap and yes motor and batteries matter ALOT!
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Old 02-24-2004, 09:59 AM   #92
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Yeah Webspinner you get the jist of what I said.At club races learn to drive and you'll be amazed at how fast you are. I do realize that once you are good(which I am not) you are looking for every last .1 to get a leg up on the other guy.I do know from my nitro experience that at this point every bit of power and every ounce of weight are important.I can see this driving some to try and cheat with a stock motor.

edited for my horrible spelling sorry guys

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Old 02-24-2004, 10:02 AM   #93
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I agree.
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Old 02-24-2004, 10:11 AM   #94
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Guys;

No matter what anyone else tells you, it is that perfect blend of Man, Machine and Equipment that makes you fast. This goes for any type of Vehicle competition.

Sponsored Drivers didn't get that way by using inferior equipment and you would hardly expect them to stay on top without having access to top notch products.

Likewise, put a National winning Car (full size or R/C) in the hands of an average Driver and you won't see them instantly winning any more races.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:21 AM   #95
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If i am correct, one great way to check if your armature is legal, without unwiding it, is to check is impedence (sp?) with a digital Voltmeter.

If the impedence is way different from your reference, then something s fishy !
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:55 PM   #96
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John,

If you look at the dates of the those posts regarding the snowbirds they are from last years 'birds - 2003. They were not talking about you. But I can vouch for John, he made an honest mistake. It was a complete 19T motor in his car, not a 19T arm in a stock can.
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Old 02-24-2004, 05:59 PM   #97
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actually a sponsored racer from my local track who been racing for 10 years went to south shore. he raced in stock but got beat cause he didnt have the motor for it he didnt crash once but everyone there tuned there motor and probaly were cheating them
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Old 02-24-2004, 08:21 PM   #98
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Thanx Tony.
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Old 02-24-2004, 11:41 PM   #99
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its 80% driver, 20% equipment
if you want to race against the top 5%
your going to need atleast 95%
and that would include VERY decent equipment aswell as perfect drivng.
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Old 02-25-2004, 01:52 PM   #100
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Quote:
If i am correct, one great way to check if your armature is legal, without unwiding it, is to check is impedence (sp?) with a digital Voltmeter.
Acctually, impedence is resistance to alternating current. If you check an 8 ohm speaker, it usually doesn't read 8 ohms of resistnace. Coils behave differently when alternating current is applies (as in music and esc)

So, you could check the resistance of each pole, and they should be pretty close, but with stock motors (machine wound) there can be significant differences in the resistnace due to different lengths of wire (because machines don't wind perfect, some poles look really tight, while others look like there is more loose wire). Even then, I believe there is only about .02-.05 ohms of resistance per inch of wire, so if there was one, or even two fewer wraps of the armature, it would be difficult to accurately measure it. Therefore, the difference between a 27 turn arm and a 25 turn arm, may only be 1-2 ohms.

But it is a good idea.
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Old 02-25-2004, 02:08 PM   #101
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There was a company a while back (like 10 years or more) that made a stock checker called the Stock Cop. It ran the motor and measured the impedance when current was applied. With the brushes bouncing around and cheap electronics it could not accurately detect a "true" stock motor. The only true test is a complete motor tear down, including unwrapping the windings.

Too bad there isn't another way but for a large regional or national level race I say tear them down.

As for club racing I think a motor protest rule should be applied. You think someone is cheating put up $40 dollars. If you are wrong you get to buy the motor you were complaining about. If you are right the person get DQ'd and you keep your money.
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Old 02-25-2004, 03:11 PM   #102
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The protest rule applies at bigger events too......its pointless to do it at a club race....

And you can fairly accurately measure a motors windings with an LCR meter....a multimeter would NOT be a good tool to do it.


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Old 02-25-2004, 03:15 PM   #103
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I don't worry too much about motor cheating at the club level. After racing with people for a long time, we pretty much have a good idea of who can run 5 minutes clean and who can't. The guys that can't could cheat, but it wouldn't get them very far. For those of us who can run a clean qualifier or race, we are all pretty much about the same speed. If someone started running a few tenths faster consistently, we might become suspicious... and even if they are cheating, it's still not the end of the world. I haven't personally seen it in our club but I know people who have been caught.

I guess if it were really commonplace in a particular club, then it might be worth worrying about.
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Old 02-25-2004, 03:20 PM   #104
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Unfortunately, a motors speed also depends upon its gearing. I see people all the time with their motors overgeared, then wonder why somebody elses motor is so fast. I just TQ'd 4wd mod with a P2k last Sunday. I also set a new track record in 4wd stock with the same motor that was a faster time than the track record in 2wd mod set by a factory Losi driver. I believe that doing a good job of carrying corner speed, and hitting the jumps right is faster than a little more straigt speed. In fact, in the main, I put in a 19t motor and went slower. Also, my car was definetly not the fastest on the straight.

This is offroad mind you. When we you talk about say 19t or Mod on carpet with foams, then every watt counts...
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Old 02-26-2004, 08:56 AM   #105
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I took this from another post

5-38: Tabs on the armature’s commutator may only be “compression welded”. No after-market
welding or silver brazing will be permitted.

o.k., now prosilver have a motor on the market called the sib. The tabs have little "semi-conductors" welded to them right where the wire joins, infact, it pretty much looks like the welding covers the wire as well.

In light of this rule, how did this motor become Roar legal as they claim ? I am curious...
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