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Old 03-27-2003, 01:24 PM   #46
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PS: old quote from my Counter-Strike clan "Being called a cheater when you are not cheating, is the biggest compliment of all."
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Old 03-27-2003, 07:01 PM   #47
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yupp... those fast guys are not cheating....just look at the way they drive and handle the car.... you'll notice if here cheats or not.... it's unfair to call them cheating.... the best way to be fair on this.... the organiser must check all aspect right from car weight & motor turn, the rest... depends on the race requirement... IMO
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Old 03-27-2003, 07:26 PM   #48
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Default but but but i love to cheat!

Salutations Earthlings!
i resent that you all hate cheaters!
i love cheating and am proud of it!
when no one is looking between heats... i spray WD40 on my tires so that the tires can glide over the track surface with minimum friction.i also sometimes lube my motor comm with barbeque sauce <but i won't tell you which brand .....>
and sometimes when i feel i can get away with it... i re-wind my motor armature with instant noodles!
so there!
-FP
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Old 03-27-2003, 11:29 PM   #49
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I bet it's HOT sauce...
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Old 03-28-2003, 12:04 AM   #50
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I bet I know which brand it is(coughHeinz57cough)....
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Old 03-28-2003, 12:40 AM   #51
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Default Re: but but but i love to cheat!

Quote:
Originally posted by foampervert
.i also sometimes lube my motor comm with barbeque sauce <but i won't tell you which brand .....>
and sometimes when i feel i can get away with it... i re-wind my motor armature with instant noodles!
so there!
-FP
Yes I have heard of this Idea
The best part is that halfway through the race when the motor gets hot it sends out this smell (similar to chinese food) that distracts the other drivers because all they can think about is what they are going to have for lunch.

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Old 03-28-2003, 06:54 AM   #52
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Cheating is everybody's problem.

As it has been stated, most race directors don't have the time or manpower to tech each car fully each race. Given all of the race administration, hobby shop administration and other duties, some owners don't even get to watch the racing.

As racers, we do have a responsibility to police ourselves. This has to be done with discretion though. We don't need to start rumors or do any backstabbing. If we believe that someone is cheating, go to the race director. They may be able to immediately dispel an concerns, or if the concerns are valid, they can investigate. This is a responsibility the track owner has to take on when running a track.

At my local track, there is a scale at the table where we get our transponders. It isn't required that we weigh the cars, but most of us do. They also have dowels to check ride height. These are the easy items to tech. Motors will most likely only be checked if there is a complaint due to the time and effort involved in the inspection process.

One thing that may be reasonable to ask all track owners to do is to tech any car that breaks the track record. This won't necessarily stop cheating down in the ranks, but it does set up the possibility of getting caught. Most cheaters think they can win the big race and that is why they do it, so this fear may be enough to stop them.

Jeff Gilligan
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Old 03-28-2003, 07:49 AM   #53
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Default Re: Cheater, cheater....

Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer
I have personally seen how much faster a Professionally Hand tuned Stocker can go.

As to the Monitoring, most clubs neither have the time, expertise or willingness to tech "Questionable" Motors,
A hand "TUNED" motor is vastly different than a hand "WOUND" motor. Hand tuning is a matter of hood alignment, brush composition, spring matching, bushing run in and comm truing.

Pattern winding an armature by hand so that every strand is laid down precissly and perfectly balancing the arm afterwords can increase the efficency and out put of a motor by as much as 45% over a machine wound arm.

And any clubs race directors can handle a simple tech inspection provided they bother to read a very few simple, easy to understand tech rules. The motor needs to have a armature that is permantly labled with a tag that states the brand and number of turns of the amature. No bearings allowed. All parts of the motor must be of the same brand and model manufacture. It's real simple to unwind and count the turns of a motor. And it's simple to tell if the comm tab has been tampered with. Rebuildable stock motors now have the windings epoxied to protect the label so unwinding a few turns from an arm without disturbing the label are pretty much impossable.

Now to counter act the poor sport "crybabies" that would be temped to call for a motor to be teched at the drop of a hat, the standard "protest" rule is the person protesting another racers motor must put up a cash fee of $45.00. Since teching a motor requires unwinding and counting the turns of the motor it distroys said motor. So if the motor turns out to be legal then the motors owner gets the money to replace the motor. If the motor is found illegal then the protester gets the money back.

Simply put there is no good reason why any club can not tech a stock motor in less than 5 minuets on any given day unless they are just plain lazy. It aint that hard.

Last edited by Pinky; 03-28-2003 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 03-28-2003, 10:09 AM   #54
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there should be polygraph machines on big races
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Old 03-28-2003, 10:31 PM   #55
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Quote:
there should be polygraph machines on big races
Wouldn't that be a dyno lol
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Old 03-28-2003, 10:38 PM   #56
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Default Re: Re: Cheater, cheater....

Quote:
Originally posted by Pinky
Now to counter act the poor sport "crybabies" that would be temped to call for a motor to be teched at the drop of a hat, the standard "protest" rule is the person protesting another racers motor must put up a cash fee of $45.00. Since teching a motor requires unwinding and counting the turns of the motor it distroys said motor. So if the motor turns out to be legal then the motors owner gets the money to replace the motor. If the motor is found illegal then the protester gets the money back.

Simply put there is no good reason why any club can not tech a stock motor in less than 5 minuets on any given day unless they are just plain lazy. It aint that hard.
Counter comments:

1) The Person(s) putting on the race are usually responsible for sweeping, blowing and assembling the track, getting everyone signed up in a reasonable amount of time, entering all of the data into the race computer, announcing the races, racing themselves sometimes and breaking down and transporting ALL of the track and equipment. If their lucky, they might have a helping hand or too. Now add Tech inspections to every class that might require them, by XX amount of racers, and It quickly becomes more than than what is reasonable for a 2-3 man crew can handle for a days worth of racing.

2) If I could EVER find a Stock Motor that's good enough to be accused of Cheating. Hell if I'm going to let it be torn apart and UN-wound, just for the "Crybabies" to see IT IS legal.

Anyways, that is my $10 worth on the subject.
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Old 03-29-2003, 01:00 AM   #57
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You can find a vast number of 'reasons' to not tech suspect motors yet it's so easy to cry "cheater cheater". No one is saying EVERY motor should be teched. Simply a motor that during a main event shown probable cause to be suspect, by a fellow racer that is willing to put his "money where his mouth is".

Believe me if someone is willing to put up a cash deposit to have a motor torn down then there must be a pretty good chance it's suspect. Whiner's are not going to fork out cash to back up their mouth. The club I race at has 2-3 people running the show. Yet in the past they have and will tech a motor from a main event if it's called for and backed up with a tech deposit.

Again it takes about 4-5 minuets to check a motor. In several years of club racing I've only known of about 5 cases where a motor was called. Two motors were found to be altered and the others were found to be legal.

So Pop's, what you are saying is it's too much trouble and not worth taking 5 minuets to postitivelly prove whether a motor is legit or not? And you're saying that you would choose to refuse having your "legal" motor teched and remove all doubt and get the cash deposit to replace the motor? Interesting concept. But like you mentioned earlier, most clubs don't have the "willingness" to prove it one way or other. So the guys that do cheat never get caught and the guys that don't cheat will always be suspect. Nice.
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Old 03-29-2003, 11:03 AM   #58
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Smile simple solution

Make all races "claiming races" If you really think the cat is cheating you buy his motor. If he gets beat hecant very well say you are using a cheater motor.
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Old 03-29-2003, 11:11 AM   #59
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Red face cheating?

Define cheating please. I use truly stock motors, but since I'm a machinist I have a lot of "custom" parts on my car. I have been accused of cheating because these parts are not available to all. I've offered to sell anyone anything they want but I guess its easier to just call me a cheater. Opinions?
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Old 03-29-2003, 11:24 AM   #60
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Ghoulardi.
I hate caliming rules.
That's my opinion.. Because I take extra care of my stuff...

As for custom parts.
If there isn't anything stated in the rules about availabilty for all, or no custom parts allowed.
Calling you a cheater is not fair...You're plaing within the rules thus you're racing legal...


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