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Old 03-26-2003, 06:53 PM   #31
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damn cheaters!
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Old 03-26-2003, 07:37 PM   #32
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cheating to win or win by cheating is not what we want for the races....

in my local race here, there are guys who run 17 T in the stockers can and also replacing the bushing with bearings....

but wait.... he ain't going faster.... cos they drive likes mad... they are not a really good drivers too.... they crash more often that the slower guys but the slower guys won the race....less accident and less lap time.....

speeding with longer lap time is no the way to win the race...
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Old 03-26-2003, 08:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer


As to the Monitoring, most clubs neither have the time, expertise or willingness to tech "Questionable" Motors, and for the most part, the Racers will be the Judge and Jury.
Hi Pops,
I always make note of your very informed and sensible replies to peoples posts. In my books you are one very knowledgable racer so please don't take my reply to your above statement personally. It is just my 2 cents worth on the topic.

I do however feel that the people who are responsible for organising these clubs, the race meets as well as the basic club rules should make an effort to monitor suspect racers. It is in the best interests of the club and its members that things have some regulation. Leaving it up to the fellow racers can lead to some very ugly scenes. In my opinion it is very dangerous to leave it up to the racers to make the call without any real evidence to support or prove their suspicions. Some people just do not know how to approach these situations with any diplomacy.
As you mentioned it is possible, with the right tuning, to get a very quick LEGAL stock motor. I would hate to see an occurance where a racer was ridiculed, talked about behind his back or agressively confronted because his fellow racers felt his new professionally tuned stock motor seemed suspect to them.

I think there should always be someone who has ultimate control and who will "make the time" to address a situation where a driver has come under suspicion for breaches of the basic rules of stock racing.

Don't let the minority who are thinking of cheating feel like they may get away with it because the race organisers don't seem interested in policing the rules.
I am not saying that the organisers should sit and watch every race, that would not be possible.
I think that its up to the fellow racers to bring a suspected cheater to the attention of a race organiser and then the official should Investigate the matter and talk to the driver concerned.

In the end, if the clubs officials don't show an Interest in upholding any of the basic rules of stock racing then they leave themselves open to all sorts.

Steevo

Last edited by Steevo; 03-27-2003 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 03-27-2003, 12:14 AM   #34
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Steevo,

I agree.
But most of the time in reality it will be the way as Pops described it...

When racing legal, then you can take pride in every result you make....

Pizza
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Old 03-27-2003, 12:45 AM   #35
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Yes Pizza, I Know the unfortunate reality of it all.
I am sure though that many clubs officials do keep an eye on things.
I am just prepping for a go at stock racing myself. I have only ever run in mod previously. In fact the slowest motor I have had is a 16Turn. I only hope that at the club I intend to race at, everyone is enjoying their racing no matter where they place and not resorting to dirty tricks to win.

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Old 03-27-2003, 12:51 AM   #36
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Well Steevo I hope so also.
As long as the fast majority is there just to enjoy competing in an honest way it should still be worth it..

What just occured to me is that it is the same all around the world...Me Europe, You Aussie and f.i. Pops USA...


And good luck stockracing.......
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Old 03-27-2003, 02:08 AM   #37
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Most guys who cheat aren't "fast guys". The cheaters are trying to catch up to the fast guys to try to compensate for their lack of driving skills. Stock sedan is about driving and consistency.

We had a guy at Cleveland US Indoor Champs get sent home for cheating and he was in the bottom third of the class. Obviously it didn't help. If you cheat and STILL can't win that's pretty sad.
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:04 AM   #38
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repeat

Last edited by lee82gx; 03-27-2003 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:10 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike F
Very interesting point Charlie
another point-how much faster can a hand-wound 27T arm be?
i'm dont believe that after 27 turns,a lot of space can be saved.
im also not sure that after 27 turns, the total length of the winded wires can be much different as well.(these are important tuning criteria)
I personally wind motors for fun...trust me i dont cheat cos i dont race anyway( and
THE [email protected]#HOLE WHO HAND WOUND A 27T ARM IS A DISGRACE OTHER TUNERS.WHAT THE HELL IS HE TRYING TO DO?CHEAT?
Of course -since we broach the subject of cheating..it gets very hormone fueled.
there are faster people who have superior motors.branding them a cheat is very unfair and also rude.
Then there are those who have nothing better to do than resort to cheating to win.
The best way-in my opinion is to have handout motors.
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:13 AM   #40
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just a note for the fast guys that are not cheating

if a slow or young, newer racer asks you what motor you are running dont take it the wrong way. they are not calling you a cheat but comlementing your very fast motor so maybe they can buy one

i have heared wispers at my local club about my motor...
these have started after i purchased a comm lath. No big deal about the comm lath as i reguly had mod drivers cut my comm, but the performance was alot faster when i do it. Why, because my dad is an engineer, i study design tec at school, and there for know how to set and cut on a lath.
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Old 03-27-2003, 03:50 AM   #41
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Hi Tom,
I fear I may have some questioning my motor as well when I start racing stock. I have spent a lot of time over the last couple of years playing with spring combinations, brush types as well as learning to cut my comm to a perfect finish. I had my Carbon Steel comm lathe bit shaped and sharpened professionally and it is brilliant. I think it cuts better than any Diamond tool but thats my opinion. It is more the shape of the tool which has made the difference.
I am sure that with your dads experience as an engineer and your own skills you can find ways of gaining those few 10ths of a second legally.
A lot can be said for the extra performance you can gain from a motor that has been "worked" while still keeping it legal.

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Old 03-27-2003, 06:19 AM   #42
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Lee,

You would be amazed how much difference a handwound armature can make.
Also a 27t.
There will be used slightly less wire.
Equally wound so weight diff, as well as inductance are much more equal all around.
As well as the weight is closer to the shaft because of quality winding...

CU
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Old 03-27-2003, 12:45 PM   #43
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This whole thread has concentrated on cheating motors. What about running underweight cars? To me, rules are rules and running a car at 51 oz. is no different than running an illegal motor.

Just my 2 cents...
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Old 03-27-2003, 12:58 PM   #44
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The fact remains that it is up to the race directors to call the cheaters... not all clubs enforce tight rules, i.e. weight, body style, height, wing size.... in fact, there are far too many rules for a one man show to run each car through before and after the mains, quals, etc.

In some cases, yes the racer can call for a motor to be tech'd.... but the person doing the tech would have to know what they are doing! This is usually where the rules fall short - in the hands of the tech.


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Old 03-27-2003, 01:22 PM   #45
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forget all that!!! lol.. EVERYONE RUN STOCK HANDOUT MOTORS WITH THE ENDBELLS WELDED ARC-WELDED ON!!! jk.. lol.. So many things can contribute to "cheating" when it comes to motors.. I mean even handout motors can be taken apart, and clipped a few winds, without anyone knowing. Kinda funny, but even w/ so many stock motors out there, I thought that stock racing was meant so that power between cars was relatively "equal" resulting in the person's driving skills to be the deciding factor? Being such the noobie that I am in this SPORT, I don't have all the hi class parts (most my stuff came from an AE TC3.) heck, I run batteries from radioshack, and they suit me fine. I never catch up w/ the other guys in the straights, but bring me to the turns, and I go byebye! heheh... I don't give if the straight is 8 or 80 feet.. 80 feet straigt just means 280 feet of curves ... The best cheat to use I would believe is the practice cheat.. u know.. the one where you practice ur driving skills more than everyone else there????

Jez my 2 cents
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