R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-05-2007, 10:50 AM   #16
Tech Regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 466
Send a message via AIM to kyle478
Default

Maybe all the manufactures should get together and put some kind of rules together.

So anyone have any good ideas on limiting these motors?
kyle478 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 10:55 AM   #17
Tech Elite
 
sosidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Bull , I only need one brushless motor for ever
So will you pledge to keep the same motor and the same Orion cells forever?

Even if Novak release a Spec 2 motor with more power or Orion release a 3600 LiPo which has better voltage under load?

Did anyone pledge to only use P2K's and only use GP3300s? At the time we thought they were the best and couldn't be bettered.
sosidge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 10:58 AM   #18
Tech Legend
 
Wild Cherry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: TRCR Modified Driver
Posts: 22,595
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge
So will you pledge to keep the same motor and the same Orion cells forever?

Even if Novak release a Spec 2 motor with more power or Orion release a 3600 LiPo which has better voltage under load?

Did anyone pledge to only use P2K's and only use GP3300s? At the time we thought they were the best and couldn't be bettered.
Not forever actually, 10 times longer though than
if I went with the old tech ....
__________________
Any driver can copy a great set up, a Champion however will steal it .
If Jesus returned as a Rc car he be a Rc10 B5M
George W. Cherry
Wild Cherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 11:17 AM   #19
Tech Fanatic
 
James35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Posts: 750
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital
I was thinking the same thing. There need to be standards put into place quickly so that the brushless market doesnt get killed by all the alternatices. If tracks begin to allow anything with a 13.5 sticker on it in their stock classes then things will get out of control quickly. Alternatively people should be able to have a choice in the motors they buy. There are always going to be faster/better products but the differences between that and alternatives shouldnt be laps faster...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle478
Maybe all the manufactures should get together and put some kind of rules together. So anyone have any good ideas on limiting these motors?
According to the laws of physics, there is only 1 true way of classifying these motors: The amount of power (Watts) produced at 7.2V.

(Kv rating is no good because it takes torque completely out of the equation. It's a rating with no load. It gives you an idea, but it's not an accurate way to measure power of a motor. You need to look at both RPM and Torque to determine the power of a motor.)

HP (Watts) = RPM x Torque
746 Watts = 1 electric horsepower
I love to quote Big Jim who used to say:
"Horsepower is horsepower! Speed then, is just a matter of gearing."

It's been my opinion for some time, that ROAR should determine our classes by power. Examples:
Stock class: 100 Watts of power maximum
Super Stock class: 200 Watts of power maximum
Modified class: Unlimited power

This way, it does not matter who makes the motor, or how many windings it has, or the types of windings, or the magnets, bearings, or any technology etc.. This solution allows you to even mix and match brushed and brushless, and even different manufacturers. I think the only thing needed for this to happen is an increased availability of dynos.

Last edited by James35; 03-05-2007 at 11:37 AM.
James35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 11:44 AM   #20
Tech Lord
 
syndr0me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: 5280 Raceway
Posts: 13,140
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
Default

People are delusional if they think the BL or LiPo will solve the problems we have currently. It's likely nothing will every solve that, racing will always be an arms race.

But, both technologies are significantly better than those they look to replace, and that alone is reason enough to move forward.
syndr0me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 11:54 AM   #21
Company Representative
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,891
Default

There must be a typo in the LRP press release. Where they claim "LRP presents the first ever sports level Brushless line."

They must have meant to say their first ever, since Novak has been offering sports-level brushless systems since 2003.
NovakTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 12:02 PM   #22
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
People are delusional if they think the BL or LiPo will solve the problems we have currently. It's likely nothing will every solve that, racing will always be an arms race.

But, both technologies are significantly better than those they look to replace, and that alone is reason enough to move forward.
IMHO, the key here is not the ending of the "arms race." In fact, I think the arms race is good. Progress is good. Makes things more interesting.

What brushless does is end the one of the high maintenance items that was required to compete in the hobby. Motor maintenance is wayyyy reduced.

Likewise, Lipos reduce battery maintenance.

I'd like to see one other area of maintenance reduced...but it will be a hard sell. Right now tracks are not designed to protect cars. In fact, I'm wonder if they aren't designed to damage cars so the shop will have a constant source of income. I'd like to see tracks designed so that impact energy was reduced...much like the changes they've made in the auto race industry with energy absorbing walls and huge infields that the cars can lose energy on without smacking hard into stuff. Sure you will still have your car on car impacts but the walls seem to do the most damage.

Imagine going a season where the consumables are tires and the latest greatest gear...instead of A-arms, rims and steering arms.
Disaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 12:07 PM   #23
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disaster
IMHO, the key here is not the ending of the "arms race." In fact, I think the arms race is good. Progress is good. Makes things more interesting.

What brushless does is end the one of the high maintenance items that was required to compete in the hobby. Motor maintenance is wayyyy reduced.

Likewise, Lipos reduce battery maintenance.

I'd like to see one other area of maintenance reduced...but it will be a hard sell. Right now tracks are not designed to protect cars. In fact, I'm wonder if they aren't designed to damage cars so the shop will have a constant source of income. I'd like to see tracks designed so that impact energy was reduced...much like the changes they've made in the auto race industry with energy absorbing walls and huge infields that the cars can lose energy on without smacking hard into stuff. Sure you will still have your car on car impacts but the walls seem to do the most damage.

Imagine going a season where the consumables are tires and the latest greatest gear...instead of A-arms, rims and steering arms.
Im not sure car protection is completely on the track owners. Obviously their first responsibility is to protect the racers (turn marshalls, spectators). I think the car mfgs need to play in this. Ive been racing a TA05 the last three weeks (had an RDX) and havent broken a single part but have seen a countless number of broken A-arms by the RDX owners.
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 12:11 PM   #24
Regional Moderator
 
Darkseid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At my computer, duh...
Posts: 9,033
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Wild Cherry...muahdib4...

Just let it go guys. Theres no point in trying to convince people. If they're against BL/LiPo, they're usually going to stay that way until they have to switch. Then they will turn into those people who STILL feel the need to own 4 packs...5 motors...and two $400+ chargers. Then they'll say "see, this is just like brushed/NiMH."

I've been using the same Orion Platinum 4800 since Oct '05, AS MY ONLY PACK and its just as good as the new ones people are buying out of the case today. And somebody is going to convince me that thats ever going to be as bad as NiMH....yeah...okay.

We're rapping up a carpet season in which 95% of us haven't even opened up our motors all winter, and those that have were just adding the sintered rotor to keep motor temp under control. And somebody is going to say that thats ever going to be as bad as brushed motors...yeah...okay.

Will people still try to find/buy and advantage, of course they will. But they haven't figured it out yet. And hopefully the people with that mentality will stick to brushed/NiMH forever.

Well, we can hope can't we!
__________________
TLR 22...Tamiya F104...
Darkseid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 12:13 PM   #25
Regional Moderator
 
Darkseid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: At my computer, duh...
Posts: 9,033
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Now back on topic...

Like someone said before, this would be really good news if...as was mentioned...LRP didn't have a 1-2year gap between announcing new stuff and actually getting it on store shelves. I mean, I saw a pic of their new SphereTC speedcontrol I don't know how long ago, and I keep seeing it on the pro drivers cars....

...but unless I've missed it, it hasn't seen the retail shelves here in the states yet.
__________________
TLR 22...Tamiya F104...
Darkseid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 12:14 PM   #26
Tech Adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 179
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James35
It's been my opinion for some time, that ROAR should determine our classes by power. Examples:
Stock class: 100 Watts of power maximum
Super Stock class: 200 Watts of power maximum
Modified class: Unlimited power

This way, it does not matter who makes the motor, or how many windings it has, or the types of windings, or the magnets, bearings, or any technology etc.. This solution allows you to even mix and match brushed and brushless, and even different manufacturers. I think the only thing needed for this to happen is an increased availability of dynos.
I like that idea but wonder where we should limit power. In the motor? In the electrical system? In the battery?

I'm leaning toward limiting the delivered power. With the latest ESC's it wouldn't be too tough to limit the maximum delivered power.

Wouldn't it be great if you could use the same ESC to race in the stock and mod classes? There are lots of ways to prevent or reduce the risk of cheating. One way would be to have a mini-plug..like used with computers, that you would put across one connector to choose stock and another to choose mod.

Race any brushed or brushless motor you want but realize you aren't going to get anything more than 100 watts of max power and 12 volts....or whatever is set for the class.

That would leave the motor manufacturers to their arms races to develop the most efficient motors.

It could get real interesting.
Disaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2007, 12:50 PM   #27
Tech Fanatic
 
muahdib4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Raymore
Posts: 863
Send a message via Yahoo to muahdib4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkseid
Wild Cherry...muahdib4...

Just let it go guys. Theres no point in trying to convince people. If they're against BL/LiPo, they're usually going to stay that way until they have to switch. Then they will turn into those people who STILL feel the need to own 4 packs...5 motors...and two $400+ chargers. Then they'll say "see, this is just like brushed/NiMH."

I've been using the same Orion Platinum 4800 since Oct '05, AS MY ONLY PACK and its just as good as the new ones people are buying out of the case today. And somebody is going to convince me that thats ever going to be as bad as NiMH....yeah...okay.

We're rapping up a carpet season in which 95% of us haven't even opened up our motors all winter, and those that have were just adding the sintered rotor to keep motor temp under control. And somebody is going to say that thats ever going to be as bad as brushed motors...yeah...okay.

Will people still try to find/buy and advantage, of course they will. But they haven't figured it out yet. And hopefully the people with that mentality will stick to brushed/NiMH forever.

Well, we can hope can't we!
Well...I wasn't trying to convince anyone. I was just kidding...jeez. I'm done trying to convince people of anything. I'm just going to race Minis with LiPo and be happy and if they come out with a silvercan equivilent in brushless and Core and Freq and whoever else decides to race Mini decide we all want to use the same one then that's what we'll do.
__________________
KCRC - Kansas City Remote Crawlers
Team Chucklenuts Racing
Midwest R/C Rally Confederation
KC/RC Drift Movement
muahdib4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Castle Creations MAMBA COMP X brushless system and 6800 brushless system for sale Ron Meloni R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 15 03-31-2008 04:32 PM
NOVAK 3.5R Brushless System - LRP 3.5 Brushless System - 3.5 BL paul73rc Australia Wanted to Buy 4 01-02-2008 06:26 AM
wtb Brushless system, radio system, servos dorick R/C Items: Wanted to Buy 1 05-21-2007 03:41 PM
Best brushed system & best brushless system <$250 Wildewinds Electric On-Road 2 09-11-2004 05:58 PM
Pitbull charger,5800 brushless,Futaba sports 37 RACING R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 3 06-13-2004 12:19 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 05:49 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net