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Old 02-26-2007, 03:25 PM   #76
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I spel gud
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:27 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
The problem is that slower BL motors aren't a lot less expensive than full blown mod BL motors.

We need to have a low cost low speed entry level class for guys to start out with so they can learn to control their cars. A 540 motor is cheap and very inexpensive speed contrils can run it. Thats a win-win for guys starting out.

How many time have you been asked how much your rig costs at a race only to get a look of shock and dismay from the kid (or parent) asking you.

The 540 LiPo class is there to get guys hooked on racing at a speed that increase the changes of sucess. Once they know that R/C racing is for them they can take the nest step and invest in a faster, more expensive power system.
Yea, good call, I completely agree.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:31 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
Now there's an idea. The minis that Charlie, Neal and I have been running are running the silvercans and if I can find a way to get a brushless ESC in the car I might have to try that though not sure what that'll do to the weight balance of the car. I'm sure they wouldn't mind if I was actually "faster"...they'd still beat me by a lap or more.
The 18.5 is intended as a high-torque "crawler" motor. You'd probably have to gear it ridiculously high to get speed out of it, and there's no telling what all that torque would do to the drive train of your mini. It's just the only thing available that's slower than a 13.5.
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:23 PM   #79
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Since we (UK) have 95% organised Club racing ,so Rules are rife over here

li-po will take a age to get in
540 silver !!! they won`t go for that ,loads of guys have money tied up in 27t motors /lathes /brush etc
so that`s out

my ideal proposal for the uk would be
5 cell for 27t/19t/mod
1 weight for all
orion/trakpower hard cased li-po BRCA backed for club/series use in black & white to make the RD club men fell easy on the insurance cover

brushless stock ?????? this has to have it`s own class ,quite a few can`t afford to spend that amount of money 250.00

if you suggest sell the 27t, lathes & wot not to fund the 13.5 ,who`s going to buy it ,
every one is going brushless.............
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:19 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
Since we (UK) have 95% organised Club racing ,so Rules are rife over here

li-po will take a age to get in
540 silver !!! they won`t go for that ,loads of guys have money tied up in 27t motors /lathes /brush etc
so that`s out
That is exactly the problem as I see it. Lots of motors, lathes, extra brushes...etc. Point of entry for new blood is too high. We need to get more people into the sport by making the hardware simpler.

In the long run...heck, even the short run a brushless is cheaper than all that equipment. Same goes for Lipo vs. insanely priced NiMh's and all the battery matching, cycling equipment.
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:45 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Disaster
In the long run...heck, even the short run a brushless is cheaper than all that equipment. Same goes for Lipo vs. insanely priced NiMh's and all the battery matching, cycling equipment.
Err Sub-C cells have never been so cheap what are you on about ?
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:59 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
UN4 - I like the 5800 motors but with sintered rotors they are so close to Mod Lap times that you could run them in Open mod.

Bob Stormer made a great point a few threads ago about classes needing to be 2 laps apart in quailfiying order.

So...

540 turns 23 lps
Stock turns 25 laps
Spec Mod turns 27 laps
Mod turns 29 laps

This way you have a progression from one to another class so racers can experience a reasonable increase in power and speed at each level. Then they can master that power and move up again if they want to.

I think we need to discuss this and get it really well thought out. Then we can make a formal Proposal to ROAR and see if we can make this happen for 2008.
Good point. Thanks, I'll be watching for the thread thats gets into some of these topics. I couldn't agree more on your entire post. Keep up the good work.
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Old 02-26-2007, 08:05 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Err Sub-C cells have never been so cheap what are you on about ?
Hmm...seems the ones I always see people buying for racing are insanely expensive...matched...to get that last hundreth of voltage out.
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Old 02-26-2007, 08:41 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Err Sub-C cells have never been so cheap what are you on about ?

Yeah , but you have to buy new NK-Ml every 60 cycles...

Li-Po last way longer which makes um way less expensive....

and don`t forget , easier to use for a beginner and expert`s...

Once you have Li Po its not easy to switch back cus they are so covenant to use heat after heat....

No wonder the matcher`s hate um....
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Old 02-26-2007, 08:45 PM   #85
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I see matched LiPo cells in my crystal ball. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bigger companies are not doing it already.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:59 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraig
I see matched LiPo cells in my crystal ball. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bigger companies are not doing it already.
...and racers will certainly figure out how to beat them up in ways (Pre heating, Hi-C charging) to make them faster and inevitably hurt thier lifespans
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:40 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraig
I see matched LiPo cells in my crystal ball. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bigger companies are not doing it already.
There are higher C Lipos available...which cost more money...and A123 cells...which can be charged faster and are even higher C. However, for most classes of brushless, a typical 20C brushless will be all you need and you won't see any improvement over a more expensive cell.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:50 PM   #88
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A simple voltage cap limit would resolve all of those issue`s would`nt it ?
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Old 02-26-2007, 11:49 PM   #89
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Why is it that so many people say "it's cheaper in the long run" but complain about the price of things they buy? It might be cheaper in the long run if you're already dedicated to the sport, but new drivers are not going to spend $$$ up-front just to race at a Club, when they have no idea if they are in it for the long run.

Why do so many people assume that the drivers currently in it all want things to be 'easier'? I for one like sub-C and brushed motors, and don't necessarily want to run LiPo and brushless. Are you just going to push me out, or limit me to 540s? Shame on you.

Someone suggested that the motor rules for Mod be changed to be "anything that fits into a space 53mm long and 36mm diameter" (I'd add with a mounting screw pitch of 25mm, to make sure they all fit the cars!) and I think that would be great. There is so much choice, and it would open up the market to the smaller motor builders, until something comes out as good enough to be adopted as a standard.
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Old 02-27-2007, 01:17 AM   #90
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Li-po don't fit all cars, brushless doesn't fit all cars either

Not every one can afford the brushless conversion either
when you have 70.00 27t/F1 lrp speedo vs 250.00 brushless

and things go wrong (which they do) replacing the 27t or F1 speedy would be damn site cheaper than the brushless bit (that's one problem we have rain) that's another

In all fairness there are loads of guys that like to fiddle & play around with their motors, to see what they can do & how fast they can get it to go & last it's called a "HOBBY" you take the fiddling side away then there goes the HOBBY it's not just 5 mins on the track, it's sitting in the pits & "FIDDLING"

C-cells are so much cheaper then before over here UK
45.00 & you got a really good set of matched cells.

PROBLEM IS JUST THE VOLTAGE IN C-CELLS that is causing the problems
the company`s keep pushing the volts up & up & the next lot of c-cells GP4600 ,new IB cell you be looking at 1.13+ av
And they are being updated to quickly

Also in UK we are getting the biginneers ,im seeing new comers quite a lot
so forget that idea
it`s trying to 'IT'S TRYING TO KEEP THEM IN' that's the problem,they just get really pissed off get aggro so they go fishing instead
drop 5 cell in there all 3 class`s 'as s top gap measure'
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