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Old 03-13-2007, 09:52 AM   #406
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Originally Posted by skiv
just a thought maybe its you fucking lot that is killing the sport with all these stupid rules and classes that you are trying to create
Ah..but are any of these rules and classes being used??? No, so it's not hurting anything.
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:05 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
First, try opening a Silvercan motor and putting it back together....you can't. There have been people trying that for years and you break the motor when you open it. So, there's your slower spec class motor.
Well that is one way that might be difficult to cheat. But what about the mod classes when you can open the motor. Somone might rewind theirs. Regardless, maybe we don't even need a "slower" class. Like you and other have said, people just want to go fast.


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Originally Posted by muahdib4
You keep talking about tracks having "handout" tires and renting limiters and such...but doesn't that ADD to the cost of racing? Race day would triple in cost. Our track does require a 'spec' TakeOff CS27 tire/wheel for racing rubber but it's not a handout...the track isn't responsible for that cost and it's clearly posted EVERYWHERE but they'll let you run what you have until you can afford the right ones. Limiters would cause to many headaches for track owners. Sure they could recoup the cost of the limiters by renting them but that ADDS more cost to the race day for the racer who already has entry fees, tires, etc...to pay for. What happens when racers just start buying their own limiters? There would be several companies that would make different ones and some would "limit" either more efficiently or perhaps...LESS efficiently or people could then just open them up and figure out how to "hack" the limiters. It would be no better than the current battery wars or ESCs.
How do you keep people from cheating with the tires? I'd like to drop the whole limiter discussion. It is a Red Herring for what really ails TC.

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Originally Posted by muahdib4
I'd like to say that limiting class costs is a way to save TC racing but I don't think it is. I'm afraid that people have a SPEED mindset rather than a RACE mindset. Everyone wants to go fast, not everyone wants to really race. That's why every newbie that walks into a hobby shop asks "How fast does it go?". They want speed until they see what speed really is and realize they can't control it...then they quit. Usually after the first couple of races when they've broken so many parts that the cost goes up even more for them...then they buy a nitro basher monster truck.
Which is all the more reason to not worry about the speed limiting discussion. However the cost is the issue and by limiting the cost of entry and maintenance the sport will be more attractive.

As far as breaking parts, that is one more expense of the sport that could be improved. I could design a track that was much easier on cars and it wouldn't cost a lot more than the plywood barriers they have now.

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Originally Posted by muahdib4
I'm just afraid that there is no way to save the hobby. Newbies want speed but the rest of us want to put them into slower classes so they can learn to drive...which they'll fight against. Adding yet another electronic device to the car won't work due to costs and giving the car another spot for people to cheat or another point of failure. Fewer cells in the batteries won't work because then TCs are even farther removed from all other forms of electric RC that all use 6-cell and people won't want to make that investment in new batteries just for cars they can't drive in their backyard. LiPo and Brushless motors are the best things to happen to TC racing and actually improved racing attendance even though they have that huge added initial cost but is it enough to save TCs?...No.
I think we agree that speed limiting and power limiting isn't the answer. We also agree that the new lower maintenance technologies have helped the sport (heck, they brought me back to it.) I'm just saying lets take it one or two steps further. Lets concentrate on what makes it easier for the racer customer.


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Originally Posted by muahdib4
I'm not saying that I want to see TCs die. Quite the contrary, I'd love to see it thrive but when people are told repeatedly on these boards that they NEED such and such $400 chassis or they'll never win...not a big help (I wXon't bRing up the nAme of the carY). People need to be more understanding about where people need to start in the hobby rather than just bragging about what they own AND people need to understand that you can't just jump in to racing MOD or 4300 (19T)...or even 13.5 (stock) if you've never really handled a car before. Silvercan, tub chassis, 3200 LiPo, rubber tires....that's the place to start...or replace the 3200 LiPo with a spec stick pack like the Venom 3000mah for $20. Either way...that's the perfect beginner class.
I agree. I'd add that we outright limit the cost of the brushless motor and Lipo battery so we don't end up with another cost race there and end up right back here.

Instead racers should be able to use any battery technology they want, as long as it's less than $50 dollars, below 24 volts and meets the safety specs (just stuck a couple numbers in to illustrate.) Likewise they can use any chassis they want as long as it is below $400....etc.
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:09 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
Ah..but are any of these rules and classes being used??? No, so it's not hurting anything.
People fear change. There will always be resistance. That is why we need leaders with vision and a backbone.
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:11 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by muahdib4
Right on cue.
No problem. I can sell you a chassis that will get your weight down below 1300g. It will only cost $800.
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Old 03-13-2007, 12:37 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by *SBH*
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My X-Ray T2 is 1370gram race ready, it depends a lot on equipment and how heavy Your body is.
OK, but the differance in weight of a KoPropo 2363 and a low-profile server like the 2413 is about 11-12 gr. The differance in a standard Mazda6 body and a leightweight (from Protofoam) is maybe 10-20 gr. The rest of the equipment I have is light (KoPropo receiver and a Hara Twister ESC).
The rest is standard, so where can i save more weight?
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Old 03-14-2007, 01:47 AM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztrezz
OK, but the differance in weight of a KoPropo 2363 and a low-profile server like the 2413 is about 11-12 gr. The differance in a standard Mazda6 body and a leightweight (from Protofoam) is maybe 10-20 gr. The rest of the equipment I have is light (KoPropo receiver and a Hara Twister ESC).
The rest is standard, so where can i save more weight?
The paint on Your body can also be heavy. 10 to 15 grams different!
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Old 03-14-2007, 04:36 AM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muahdib4
First, try opening a Silvercan motor and putting it back together....you can't. There have been people trying that for years and you break the motor when you open it. So, there's your slower spec class motor.

How do you know I read you say on an earlier post that you've only been in the hobby for a year or so ? So there's a setback for you:

OH YES YOU CAN OPEN A SILVERCAN MOTOR. YOU CAN SKIM IT, RE-TENSION THE BRUSH SPRINGS, RE-WIND IT AND PUT IT BACK TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT NO ONE CAN KNOW YOU'VE OPENED IT APART FROM OPENING IT THEMSELVES !

So there's your lower spec class gone.

And please stop talking that load of rubbish you are, it's getting a lot of people tired. You must have a lot of time on your hands, get yourself a life.
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Old 03-14-2007, 06:28 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by TRF415boy
How do you know I read you say on an earlier post that you've only been in the hobby for a year or so ? So there's a setback for you:

OH YES YOU CAN OPEN A SILVERCAN MOTOR. YOU CAN SKIM IT, RE-TENSION THE BRUSH SPRINGS, RE-WIND IT AND PUT IT BACK TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT NO ONE CAN KNOW YOU'VE OPENED IT APART FROM OPENING IT THEMSELVES !

So there's your lower spec class gone.

And please stop talking that load of rubbish you are, it's getting a lot of people tired. You must have a lot of time on your hands, get yourself a life.
Hmmmm...this thread has been pretty civil up until those comments. Keep your bashing to yourself. This is a thread where people have been discussing, which you obviously find discussion offensive. Heaven forbid, someone should disagree with YOU.

Also, if you will go and read the thread regarding Silvercan tips/tricks you will find that there are people who have been racing Silvercan motors for 20+ years who are saying that you can't open one without breaking it and if you do somehow manage to do it, the marks left on the endbell cover and on the can itself would be so obvious during any sort of tech inspection that you WOULD get thrown out for cheating. I've been racing for a year and I've been racing Silvercan motors for a year so I know just a little bit about them. But if you're so convinced that you can open one...how about showing a little video of how it's done. Youtube will host it for free. Just show the motor running, show us all how you open it, make some of the changes you mentioned, put it back together in a way that would pass a tech inspection and then show that it performs better then before. Truth is...it can't be done, but I'd love to see you try it.
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Old 03-14-2007, 06:28 AM   #414
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well said trf415boy
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Old 03-14-2007, 06:30 AM   #415
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i thought this thread was to discuss 5 cell in 27 and 19 turn.not how many rules can we think of to try and confuse the fuck out of everyone.seems that mr jollys thread has been hijacked
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Old 03-14-2007, 06:30 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by skiv

well said trf415boy
So this is going to turn into a bashing thread???? I guess the children finally showed up.
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Old 03-14-2007, 06:57 AM   #417
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I can open a silver can without any marks.... just like if I wanted to, when we had fixed endbell, sealed stock motors, it is easy enough to do.

They are not flamin, just pointing out something that you can't seem to see it can and does happen.
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:04 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by DA_cookie_monst
I can open a silver can without any marks.... just like if I wanted to, when we had fixed endbell, sealed stock motors, it is easy enough to do.

They are not flamin, just pointing out something that you can't seem to see it can and does happen.
Like I said, there's a LOT of people saying it can't be done on a thread dedicated to silvercan motors. I went to that thread and dropped the question there and went back through the posts and everyone there is saying the same thing..."it can't be done and if you say it can...show us". Nobody has yet.

"And please stop talking that load of rubbish you are, it's getting a lot of people tired. You must have a lot of time on your hands, get yourself a life."
That's not flaming? I think it is. If that's what this thread is going to turn into, a bunch of children calling each other names then I'll gladly drop off and leave it alone. Unlike TRF415boy I do have a life, a wife, a child, a job..etc.. I don't still live in mommies basement masturbating to pics of Marc Rheinard.
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:15 AM   #419
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Hold the can, tap motor shaft (with a pinion attatched), that pushes the endbell out, splay the tabs a little more, then press them back in when you refit, simple.
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Old 03-14-2007, 07:36 AM   #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DA_cookie_monst
Hold the can, tap motor shaft (with a pinion attatched), that pushes the endbell out, splay the tabs a little more, then press them back in when you refit, simple.
You have pics of that? I'm referring to the newer Johnson and Mabuchi 2-slot motors and not the old 4-slot. The 4-slots could be "tweaked" which is why so many TCS racers look for them but the new 2-slots don't come apart like that. I'll get you some pics of the endbell on the 2-slotters...not the same. They have plastic tabs that break if you try to open them.
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